Must Read – Refer to this page for excellent responses to the most misinterpreted Quranic verses.
“What we have done in these series of articles is responded to these false claim(s) by showing their textual contexts, backgrounds as to when they were revealed, which battles they refer to, and we’ve provided exegeses ranging from the earliest to the most contemporaneous, so that we can get a better and more comprehensive understanding of these verses”
Simply click on ‘LINK’ that will take you to the context of the verses for reference
Wrong Mr. Paul.
And u read from wrong source.
U have to read direct from Quran then find trusted meaning translation.
You read from corrupted source on web. This is not academic critic.
The Judges passage is not approving of that evil; rather it is reporting on the evil of humans and showing how evil mankind can be.
You misinterpret all the other ones in their historical context.
You avoid the ghastly stuff in the Qur’an, but the ghastliness of them are proven by the details in the Ahadith and Sira and Tarikh and the “Asbab ol Nuzul” (the Reasons/ occasion for the Revelation”; ie, historical background) – much of the Qur’an is not understandable without Ahadith, Sira, Tarikh, and Tafsirs that give us the historical background of the verses (the Asbab ol Nuzul) . The Qur’an just jumps from subject to subject without any explanation or background (a mish-mash of stuff just thrown together without order or logic) – the other sources provide the full exposure of the ghastliness of it.
Shamoun has anger issues and “fight back” / pugnacious personality; but he knows the sources and gives the “Asbab ol Nuzul” of Qur’an verses (from your own Islamic scholars) and exposes how ghastly Islam is. (such a focus on details of the sex life of the prophet and his wives and the wars / Jihads / killing people / conquering others.)
Ken you whitewash the Bible. You must believe that Jesus commanded the kiling of children and babies in 1 Samuel 15:
This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
I Sam. 15 is a combination of God’s righteous judgment and hyperbole.
Judgement against wicked nations / cultures, like the judgement brought upon the Canaanite and Amorite nations in Genesis 15:13-18 and Deut. chapters 7 and 9.
God gave them 400 years to repent – Genesis 15:13-18, vs. 16 – “until the iniquity of the Amorites (Canaanites and other wicked tribes) is complete.
God was patient.
God saved Rahab and her family out of that paganism and evil. (Joshua chapter 2)
But you never account for all the ghastly stuff in the Hadith and Sira and Tafsirs and Tarikh, which provide the necessary details about ghastly verses in the Qur’an.
Nobody justifies child-killing. There is no more Theocratic Israel. That ended in 70 AD. Jesus took the kingdom of God away from political and national Israel.
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruit. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and on whomever it falls, it will crush him.”
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.”
Matthew 21:43-45
My kingdom is not of this world, if it was of this world, my servants would be fighting . . . ” John 18:36
“our struggle is not against flesh and blood . . . ” Ephesians 6:12 = not against people, but against Satanic spirits / demons
“our warfare is not fleshly / carnal / physical” – see 2 Corinthians 10:3-5
The NT has fulfilled and superseded the OT in this aspect. All the ceremonial and civil laws were fulfilled in Christ and abrogated.
The warfare of 1 Sam. 15 has not been valid since 70 AD, and it was only for Theocratic Israel at that time. It was a judgement and the language is hyperbole.
Since NT times, just war principles are more applicable from the general teaching of the NT.
But some strains of Islam still do a ghastly and worse kind of evil aggressive warfare – Al Qaeda, Isis, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Iranian regime, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. They use texts from the Ahadith and Qur’an to justify their actions.
“I Sam. 15 is a combination of God’s righteous judgment and hyperbole.”
Right because being hyperbolic about child murder is totally something the one true God does…
Either it happened or it didn’t Ken. And either way you have to answer the implications of having such grisly religious text.
Also the judgment itself was an immoral one as it was based primarily on what their ancestors did.
“Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
This would be like if during the second coming Jesus alayhis salam commands his followers to kill the current German people for what their ancestors did during the holocaust. Would that be just Ken? And if you were there during that time would you follow such an order?
And what pray tell is this content that shows how “grisly” Islam is? Because I can guarantee you the bible is much much worse than anything you can bring against Islam.
“I can criticize a false religion if I want to.”
And when your criticisms involve double standards and hypocrisy, then people also can call you out for that if they want to as well.
Can’t you not think for a little bit that terrorists are hypocrotical Muslims!? The terrorists are bunch of ignorants.
Go check my website, because I have exposed the hypocrisy of terrorists(May Allah’s curse be upon them) for distorting the Scripture and for bringing bad image to Islam!
Islam just like any other religions on Earth does teach good and kindness, that’s why I follow Islam.
Also to be honest, it would be my pleasure and honor to kill terrorists as Traditionalist Muslim.
Just wait and see that I’ll literally be the End of Terrorism and Violence.
Poor Kenny .. Sammy Shameoun is sadly misleading you in error about Islam to your detriment, leading you astray to worship a false tri-idol god
Kenny worshipped the One God alone like Jesus himself worshipped … “it is written and FOREVER REMAINS written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and SERVE HIM ONLY ’” and Jesus also affirmed the Lord Thy God “is One and there is no other but HIM”
abandon all the post easter christology myths and counterfeit beliefs about a tri-god idol unknown to Jesus and Jewish biblical monotheism and set yourself free from trinitarian polytheism Kenny 🙂
“Nobody justifies child-killing. There is no more Theocratic Israel. That ended in 70 AD. Jesus took the kingdom of God away from political and national Israel.”
Except you did in the alleged past event that your scripture contains. And like I asked if during the second coming Jesus alayhis salam commands his followers to kill the current German people for what their ancestors did during the holocaust. Would that be just Ken? And if you were there during that time would you follow such an order?
“It was a judgement and the language is hyperbole.”
And like I showed that “judgement” was an immoral one. Hyperbole is a nice way of saying fiction. So did “judgement” happen or didn’t it Ken? And how do you know which parts were hyperbole? Not to mention what an evil thing to be hyperbolic about.
“But some strains of Islam still do a ghastly and worse kind of evil aggressive warfare – Al Qaeda, Isis, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Iranian regime, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. They use texts from the Ahadith and Qur’an to justify their actions.”
Just because some dogs of hellfire abuse and misuse our texts doesn’t mean that reflects bad on our religion. Or do you need me to show you examples of Christians and Jews doing the same thing with their objectively worse scripture? I’m still waiting for you to show content from the Islamic texts that is worse than what is described in yours Ken.
“At Jesus’ second coming, all unbelievers are judged for their own sins, not for ancestors.
Judgement day is the justice of God.
“Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (do justice) Genesis 18:25
God is always just and good.”
First how do you know people won’t be judged based on what their ancestors did? After all that’s exactly what happened in 1 Samuel 15. So are you admitting that the alleged “judgement” God is said to have enacted in that passage was immoral and evil after all?
Kenny, there is no escaping your shameful and deluded beliefs in your ruthless, loveless counterfeit ‘preexisting’ god incarnate Jesus, who as god yhwh commanded the numerous killings, executions and murders of 10,000’s of women, children and animals throughout biblical history.
spot on Vaqas – “And when your criticisms involve double standards and hypocrisy, then people also can call you out for that if they want to as well”
Kenny you are a polytheist who worships a counterfeit Jesus wondering in a maze of error justifying the murder and killings of your ‘pre-existing’ god the son – “Hang you head in shame Ken”
Wrong. No Trinitarian is a polytheist.
You fail at understanding the doctrine in Trinity 101 class, as the very first foundational aspect of the doctrine is that there is only ONE God – Mark 12:29, Deuteronomy 6:4, 1 Corinthians 8:6
Even if you claim to be monotheists that doesn’t change anything in terms of your theology. Some Hindus also claim to be monotheists and their theology is the same as yours with their gods sharing a divine substance and yet you still have no problem calling them polytheists do you? And actually all trinitarians are polytheists by virtue of worshiping two Gods by your own standards. Trinitarians always say they worship three persons with one shared being or one “what” and three “whos” and that their theology is not polytheism because of that. The problem is the person of the son incarnated and took upon himself an additional human nature making this “who” a “what” on his own. In other words two “whats” or two God’s. And before you say it no your claim that you don’t worship the human nature(which I still think is disputable) doesn’t help you in this because I’m talking about the persons and the natures attached to them.
Wrong Kenny – What you fail to comprehend is ALL Trinitarians are polytheists when assessed against and examined according to Jewish biblical monotheism.
Many professed followers of Jesus quote Deuteronomy 6:4 and proclaim they adhere to one God – Christadelphians, Mormons, JW, Catholics, Modalists, etc ….
Trinitarian theory and definitions may postulate a concept of ‘one’ God, however in reality trinitarian ‘óneness’ is an erroneous innovation, a direct theological contradiction to Jewish Biblical Monotheism and is a concept of ‘óneness’ of a tri-god unknown to Jewish biblical history and unknown to Jesus himself.
You fail to understanding the doctrine of Jewish Biblical Monotheism 101 class Kenny.
Here, let me expose you as a trinitarian polytheist by analyzing Deuteronomy 6:4 you quoted – The Shema.
seeing that you are an expert in understanding the doctrine in Trinity 101 class, please define for us what is the doctrine of Trinity monotheism? and then biblically substantiate your trinitarian theory to illustrate the Shema as proclaimed in Deuteronomy theologically articulates trinitarian ‘óneness’ of God that you assume 🙂
The problem is we (NT Christians and early church up to 500-600s AD) were already the true Monotheists for 6 centuries before Islam started. The NT properly interprets the OT. Islam is anachronistic (reading their own thing back into the OT texts, but Yahweh is NOT the Allah of Islam) and late. Islam is a false religion that guts the glorious truths of the NT, and at the same time, affirms (Surah 5:47; 5:68; 10:94, and many others) (unknowingly, ignorantly) those very Scriptures, the True Injeel is the whole NT 27 books.
As Traditionalist Muslim, I strongly believe and accept Jesus Christ, and I also accept and believe in Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Job, Adam, Ishmael, Isaac and all Prophets and Messengers.
Khalas(Enough)! Because, Jews, Christians and Muslims are only true Monotheists.
I’m sick of fighting between Christians and Muslims over Monotheism. Can we stop fighting and agree on one thing that we believe and worship same God namely the God of Abraham!? Also, we say in Classic Arabic “AllahuIbrahim” which means The God of Abraham. And we say in Arabic “Musa” which has exactly same meaning with English name Moses. And we say in Arabic “Maryam” to mean mother of Jesus which in Classic English is Mary(Maryam)
It was Islam that started the fighting and wars and conquering – Surah 9:5, 9:28-29; 8:39, many Hadith; conquering Byzantine and Persia by aggressive unjust war.
Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and was glad
Before Abraham was, I am. see John 8:56-58
The God of Abraham was the true God – the Holy Trinity, (One God in 3 persons) which the NT demonstrates and proves and 6 centuries of Christian theology demonstrate.
No, the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son; the eternal Son.
But they both are two persons with the same nature / substance = God.
The Word was with God = Jesus the Son was with the Father into eternity past
The Word was God = Jesus the Word has the same nature / essence / substance as God the Father.
John 1:1
1)Are the “I AM” statements really a proof of divinity if the human nature/will said them as well? Especially since the tetragrammaton was attached directly to certain entities in scripture rather than a mere reference in the “I AM” statements.
2)Furthermore why couldn’t the father have been the one speaking the “I AM” statements through Jesus alayhis salam as a part of divine revelation?
3)And lastly why couldn’t the “I AM” statements be like what is done in Deuteronomy 7:4, Deuteronomy 17:3, Deuteronomy 28:20, and Deuteronomy 29:5? Where the speaker’s personality is merged with that of God’s voice or revelation.
Because when Jesus spoke these things, the Jews wanted to stone Him for blasphemy, which shows they understood Him as claiming Deity, as being Yahweh in the flesh – John chapter 5:17-18; John chapter 8; John chapter 10; John 19 – read the entire chapters slowly and pray for God to give you guidance.
Of course. no force. that is why I use persuasion if you bother to read the NT, the True Injeel – but you have to read it quietly and slowly and ask God for guidance.
Once again the Jews being ignorant of their own scripture as you yourself would argue, means that their presented understanding and interpretations are inherently flawed.
Except many Jews got the right interpretation – all the disciples (except Judas) and the apostle Paul, James, the Lord’s brother – eventually – all the writers of the NT were Jews except one (Luke).
Mark, Matthew, John, Peter, Paul, James, Jude, the writer of Hebrews (Barnabas or Silas), etc. – all Jews.
They were the true Jews.
see Revelation 2:9
and Romans 2:28-29
Philippians 3:3
The NT Jewish believers in Jesus as Messiah, fulfilled the law and prophets, virgin born, Lord, crucified, dead, made alive, resurrected, ascended to heaven – these are the true Jews. Today’s Messianic Jews, like Dr. Michael Brown.
You’re missing the point Ken. Regardless of who you designate as “true” Jews the fact remain that by your own standards the Jews you are appealing to are not fully educated on their own scriptures. Thus making any understanding and interpretation of said scripture called into question.
Not to mention I offered three points to question the traditional trinitarian understanding of the alleged “I AM” statements and you ignored all of them for the point about the Jews flawed understanding.
“It was Islam that started the fighting and wars and conquering – Surah 9:5, 9:28-29; 8:39, many Hadith; conquering Byzantine and Persia by aggressive unjust war.”
You’ve repeatedly claimed that the wars of Islam were unjust and that the wars of the past of OT and the NT in the second coming were/are justified as a judgement from God. Let me just ask you straight out Ken, when compared to the wars in the OT and the NT of Jesus alayhis salam’s return what is it EXACTLY that you find the wars and laws of Islam to be “unjust”? Again compared to the OT and the NT of Jesus alayhis salam’s return. I want specific details not just generic “oh well you’re God and religion is false therefore the wars are automatically unjust.”
Don’t you see? God Almighty has sealed the heart of Ken, because Ken disbelieved and increased hard in disbelief after proofs have become clear ontu him.
You have done your Dawah(Call or Invitation)
And Ken will be among those Christians whom Jesus Christ will testify against them for telling lies about Jesus(peace be upon him)
Because after Theocratic OT is taken away from Israel, the church age is the program of God on how the Kingdom of spreads, until His second coming. The Kingdom of God spreads by prayer, evangelism, missions, holiness and suffering, NOT War and not by establishment of Sharia law / punishments like in law of Moses for apostasy.
The NT way of discipling apostasy is ex-communication out of the church, not torture or prison or the death penalty.
Islam spreads by aggressive war and conquering an area and establishing Sharia law with punishments to apostates and no freedom for evangelism & no freedom for Muslims to leave Islam. The harshness of Islam demonstrates it’s falsehood. The truth of the gospel spreads by preaching, evangelism and persuasion and grace, not the force of Islam.
The truth of Christ is demonstrated in changing people from the inside by regeneration (being born again) of the Holy Spirit; then as people are changed, families, communities, cities, nations are changed for the better. Islam has no Holy Spirit or internal change, just external laws of force and punishments to keep people in line.
God’s era of grace in the church and evangelism and freedom continues until the Second Coming of Christ, Then Jesus was judge all who did not repent and join Him.
The era of the church and freedom and evangelism is superior to the force of Islam (Hadith – “whoever leaves Islam, kill him”, Qur’an – “death for those who spread corruption in the land”, Dar Al Islam vs. Dar Al Harb, Surah 8:39 “fight until there is not more fitna (rebellion, confusion, turmoil, chaos, mutiny, etc.) “fight until religion is all for Islam, establish Zakat, etc. –
Evangelism, prayer for enemies, persuasion, grace, love, holiness (piety, moral cleanness), suffering for doing right, perseverance are superior to the force, war, aggression, Jihads, punishments, conquering of Islam.
With respect Ken you ignored the core of my questions. Which was when COMPARED to the wars of the OT and the second coming how are the wars of Islam unjust? Your reply is filled with generic concepts that assume the validity of one faith over the other rather than the specific details of war and battle comparisons I was looking for.
My assumption is correct (presuppositional Truth) since the NT revelation is Truth and Islam came along 600 years later and seeks to gut the truth out of the true Injeel, and yet also unwittingly affirms the Injeel. (Surah 5:47; 5:68; 10:94; 3:3, etc.)
“Your Word is Truth” John 17:17
For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. John 17:8
The truth of the NT is the words of the Father passed to Jesus, passed to the disciples. The Holy Spirit gives them the complete revelation to lead them into all the Truth. John chapters 14, 15, 16
“Father, restore to Me the glory I had with You before the creation of the world” – John 17:5
demonstrates Jesus’ eternality into the past.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God ( 2 persons in relationship eternally), and the Word was God. (same nature/essence as God the Father)
So am I correct at assuming at this point that the only thing making the wars of Islam unjust in your view is the fact that you view it as a false religion? Is that why you are able to overlook the blatant barbarism in the OT and the wars in the second coming? Honesty that makes your consistent preaching against the “unjust” and “warlike” aspects of Islam to be pretty weak, hypocritical, and hard to take seriously.
2nd coming is where total justice will be done. Jesus Al Masih is Just.
God is just in the OT. They are a combination of judgement and also hyperbole (exaggeration) and the wars are not to conquer the whole world, as in Islam, rather it was temporary and limited to the promised land. If they drove the pagans out of the borders of Israel, they were not to go after them in warfare into other countries or areas. But all of that was temporary, at and after 70 AD – there is no more Biblical Israel.
Whether it was temporary or not has no bearing on whether it was moral or not. And like I showed that “judgement” was an immoral one. Hyperbole is a nice way of saying fiction. So did “judgement” happen or didn’t it Ken? And how do you know which parts were hyperbole? Not to mention what an evil thing to be hyperbolic about.
The second coming is also when he will come with a sword in his mouth and slay those that do not want him as his king and I’m assuming in the trinitarian mindset god. And since his kingdom is probably going to inhabit the whole world and you just made the implication that conquering the whole world is immoral is the second coming immoral then?
No Kenny your problem is you, along with trinitarian polytheists were already true polytheists for 6 centuries before Islam started.
Again, let me expose you as a trinitarian polytheist by analyzing Deuteronomy 6:4 you quoted – The Shema.
Seeing that you are an expert in understanding the doctrine of Trinity 101 class, please define for us what is the doctrine of Trinity? and then biblically substantiate your trinitarian theory to illustrate the Shema as proclaimed in Deuteronomy theologically articulates trinitarian ‘óneness’ of God that you assume 🙂
Wrong Kenny NT revelation directly contradicts the Shema of Deut. 6:4 as also erroneously perverted in 1 Corinthians 8:6.
Again, stop diverting, running away from being exposed as a trinitarian polytheist
Seeing that you are an expert in understanding the doctrine of Trinity 101 class, please define for us what is the doctrine of Trinity? and then biblically substantiate your trinitarian theory to illustrate the Shema as proclaimed in Deuteronomy 6:4 theologically articulates trinitarian ‘óneness’ of God that you assume 🙂
No more time right now to debate. This is the doctrine of the NT and the first 6 centuries before Islam. The Deity of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity.
Since the Qur’an also thought the Injeel is truth, Islam automatically contradicts itself.
No more time for now.
You don’t understand because you cannot understand. Your soul is locked in bondage to your sin and pride and arrogance and rebellion against the true God.
43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of [r]lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
John 8:43-47
Only God can awaken your heart, for your heart is stone.
2 Corinthians 4:6
The same way that God caused the creation of light by “let there be light” in Genesis 1:3, God has to do that in our hearts to cause a person to see the light of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, skillful in teaching, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
The devil has you all (all people, until they repent and trust Christ) captive and only God has the power to grant you repentance.
Actually, the way of the NT is the way to repent of your pride and arrogance.
Philippians 2:1-11
“have this attitude which was in Christ Jesus (v. 5). . . who although He existed always as God, He humbled Himself and became a man, and humbled Himself by allowing Himself to be killed on the as a man – He allowed unjust sinners to spit on him and kill Him without vengeance and spite and rancor.” (paraphrase and application to you, in simple language – the glory of the victory of the cross – defeat of anger and vengeance spirit.
Islam’s spirit is full of vengeance, spite, rancor, malice, hatred, violence, aggressive warfare and conquering (Dar Al Islam vs. Dar Al harb)
No. Jesus Al Masih clearly said that Abraham looked to Him as the Messiah.
John 8:56-58
that is what the text of Genesis 15:1-6 indicates – belief and trust in Yahweh and in His Messiah who will come from his own body (v. 4)and be the one who will bless all nations (Genesis 12:3; 22:17-18) and defeat Satan. (Genesis 3:15)
What you say Kenny ? – “No, the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son; the eternal Son.
But they both are two persons with the same nature / substance = God”
Oh right kenny so both the Father and Son are 2 distinct divine personal gods that share the same essence/substance of divinity.. Got it! 🙂 Yep your a polytheist!
Sorry Kenny the evidence is against you, the truth of Jewish Biblical monotheism was established many millenniums before the counterfeit trinitarian god myth appeared centuries after Jesus
Jesus did not worship a false tri-god idol like you do, neither did his Disciples kenny lol.. they worshipped God as expressed in the Shema proclaimed in Deuteronomy and supported elsewhere in Deuteronomy:
“Fear the LORD your God, serve HIM ONLY and take your oaths in HIS name” Deuteronomy 6:13
“And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to HIM, to love HIM, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul” Deuteronomy 10:12
“Fear the LORD your God and serve HIM. Hold fast to HIM and take your oaths in HIM name” Deuteronomy 10:20
“So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the LORD your God and to serve HIM with all your heart and with all your soul” Deuteronomy 11:13
Furthermore, according to a pericopes by Jesus worshipped the One God alone … “it is written and FOREVER REMAINS written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and SERVE HIM ONLY ’” and Jesus also affirmed the Lord Thy God “is One and there is no other but HIM”
any post easter myths and beliefs about a tri-god idol is a counterfeit god unknown to Jewish biblical monotheism Kenny
and.. I’ll be waiting you for you when you’re not busy 🙂
(No, the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son; the eternal Son)
Combining the words Eternal+Son is an absurdity, its like saying this square is a circle, a Son is someone who come to be at a sorten time and as such cannot be “The Eternal”
(But they both are two persons with the same nature / substance = God)
So GOD is like an “incorporated company”? and the board of directors are the Father and the SON?
No wonder christianity is becoming exacting(except by name) in the west, no bright minded person would keep this kind of mumbo jumbo theology as his religion.
Quran
-Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they (polytheists) say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne!
-Glorified is He, and High Exalted above what they say!
-He is God; there is no god but He, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Glory be to God above whatever they associate with Him
“Had Allah willed to take a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He created. But glory be to Him! (He is above such things). He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible” – 39:4
sorry, I meant Micah 5:2 – “His days are from eternity”; not Malachi
Micah 5:2 (NASB)
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will come forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His times of coming forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”
You’re a deluded polytheist Kenny Lol Micah who describes the “ruler” has nothing to do with God the Son literally pre-existing from ‘eternity’ lol…
Matthew references Micah 5:2 giving insight as to what the meaning of the verse:
Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king… When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them WHERE the Christ was to be BORN. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet: And you, Bethlehem, the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.’
Moreover, Micah also indicates that this human “ruler” has a God
Micah 5:4 “And He will arise and shepherd His flock in the strength of the LORD, In the majesty of the name of the LORD His God. And they will remain, because at that time He will be great to the ends of the earth”
Kenny read here for more details and be sincere and abandon your deluded trinitarian misinterpretations 🙂
Your erroneous, faulty trinitarian eisegesis in interpreting Micah in such a way as to introduce your own polytheistic presuppositions and biases into the Hebrew biblical text.
Kenny, the contextual meaning illustrates the verse is a reference to the human ruler’s ancient ancestral origins in Bethlehem, with the dynasty of David in focus of Micah message.
lol… Sorry Kenny nothing about a literal GOD SON Messiah originating from eternity in Micah 🙂
The entire message may be in reference to a ruler from the Messianic king David born in Bethlehem, the home of Jesus’ ancient ancestors where his genealogical lineage began in ancient times. 🙂
I thought these might have been among your top favorite vile passages:
1 Kings 14:24:
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
1 Kings 15:12:
And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
1 Kings 22:46:
And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.
2 Kings 23:7:
And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.
Micah 7:14 – “Shepherd Your people with Your scepter, the flock of Your possession which dwells by itself in the woodland, in the midst of a fruitful field. Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead as in the days of old”
Were Jews feeding the flock from ancient ‘eternity’ Kenny??? lol… 🙂
Must Read – Refer to this page for excellent responses to the most misinterpreted Quranic verses.
“What we have done in these series of articles is responded to these false claim(s) by showing their textual contexts, backgrounds as to when they were revealed, which battles they refer to, and we’ve provided exegeses ranging from the earliest to the most contemporaneous, so that we can get a better and more comprehensive understanding of these verses”
Simply click on ‘LINK’ that will take you to the context of the verses for reference
Enjoy 🙂
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/05/27/most-misinterpreted-verses-of-the-quran/
Wrong Mr. Paul.
And u read from wrong source.
U have to read direct from Quran then find trusted meaning translation.
You read from corrupted source on web. This is not academic critic.
Ha Ha Paul.
The Judges passage is not approving of that evil; rather it is reporting on the evil of humans and showing how evil mankind can be.
You misinterpret all the other ones in their historical context.
You avoid the ghastly stuff in the Qur’an, but the ghastliness of them are proven by the details in the Ahadith and Sira and Tarikh and the “Asbab ol Nuzul” (the Reasons/ occasion for the Revelation”; ie, historical background) – much of the Qur’an is not understandable without Ahadith, Sira, Tarikh, and Tafsirs that give us the historical background of the verses (the Asbab ol Nuzul) . The Qur’an just jumps from subject to subject without any explanation or background (a mish-mash of stuff just thrown together without order or logic) – the other sources provide the full exposure of the ghastliness of it.
Shamoun has anger issues and “fight back” / pugnacious personality; but he knows the sources and gives the “Asbab ol Nuzul” of Qur’an verses (from your own Islamic scholars) and exposes how ghastly Islam is. (such a focus on details of the sex life of the prophet and his wives and the wars / Jihads / killing people / conquering others.)
Ken you whitewash the Bible. You must believe that Jesus commanded the kiling of children and babies in 1 Samuel 15:
This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
I Sam. 15 is a combination of God’s righteous judgment and hyperbole.
Judgement against wicked nations / cultures, like the judgement brought upon the Canaanite and Amorite nations in Genesis 15:13-18 and Deut. chapters 7 and 9.
God gave them 400 years to repent – Genesis 15:13-18, vs. 16 – “until the iniquity of the Amorites (Canaanites and other wicked tribes) is complete.
God was patient.
God saved Rahab and her family out of that paganism and evil. (Joshua chapter 2)
But you never account for all the ghastly stuff in the Hadith and Sira and Tafsirs and Tarikh, which provide the necessary details about ghastly verses in the Qur’an.
I always marvel at how Christians have the gall find excuses to justify child-killing and baby murder by the Israelites.
And commanded by Jesus!
Hang you head in shame Ken. Dont bitch about other religions when you legitimise such evil.
They applied it in Hiroshima and Nagasaki
Hyperbole = exaggeration
No, there is no shame in the truth of the Bible, inspired by the True God; the God of love and truth.
I can criticize a false religion if I want to.
Nobody justifies child-killing. There is no more Theocratic Israel. That ended in 70 AD. Jesus took the kingdom of God away from political and national Israel.
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruit. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and on whomever it falls, it will crush him.”
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.”
Matthew 21:43-45
My kingdom is not of this world, if it was of this world, my servants would be fighting . . . ” John 18:36
“our struggle is not against flesh and blood . . . ” Ephesians 6:12 = not against people, but against Satanic spirits / demons
“our warfare is not fleshly / carnal / physical” – see 2 Corinthians 10:3-5
The NT has fulfilled and superseded the OT in this aspect. All the ceremonial and civil laws were fulfilled in Christ and abrogated.
The warfare of 1 Sam. 15 has not been valid since 70 AD, and it was only for Theocratic Israel at that time. It was a judgement and the language is hyperbole.
Since NT times, just war principles are more applicable from the general teaching of the NT.
But some strains of Islam still do a ghastly and worse kind of evil aggressive warfare – Al Qaeda, Isis, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Iranian regime, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. They use texts from the Ahadith and Qur’an to justify their actions.
@Ken Temple
“I Sam. 15 is a combination of God’s righteous judgment and hyperbole.”
Right because being hyperbolic about child murder is totally something the one true God does…
Either it happened or it didn’t Ken. And either way you have to answer the implications of having such grisly religious text.
Also the judgment itself was an immoral one as it was based primarily on what their ancestors did.
“Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
This would be like if during the second coming Jesus alayhis salam commands his followers to kill the current German people for what their ancestors did during the holocaust. Would that be just Ken? And if you were there during that time would you follow such an order?
And what pray tell is this content that shows how “grisly” Islam is? Because I can guarantee you the bible is much much worse than anything you can bring against Islam.
“I can criticize a false religion if I want to.”
And when your criticisms involve double standards and hypocrisy, then people also can call you out for that if they want to as well.
Ken justifying child-killing and he moans about Sam Shamoun’s behaviour!
You brainless individual.
Can’t you not think for a little bit that terrorists are hypocrotical Muslims!? The terrorists are bunch of ignorants.
Go check my website, because I have exposed the hypocrisy of terrorists(May Allah’s curse be upon them) for distorting the Scripture and for bringing bad image to Islam!
Islam just like any other religions on Earth does teach good and kindness, that’s why I follow Islam.
Also to be honest, it would be my pleasure and honor to kill terrorists as Traditionalist Muslim.
Just wait and see that I’ll literally be the End of Terrorism and Violence.
Poor Kenny .. Sammy Shameoun is sadly misleading you in error about Islam to your detriment, leading you astray to worship a false tri-idol god
Kenny worshipped the One God alone like Jesus himself worshipped … “it is written and FOREVER REMAINS written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and SERVE HIM ONLY ’” and Jesus also affirmed the Lord Thy God “is One and there is no other but HIM”
abandon all the post easter christology myths and counterfeit beliefs about a tri-god idol unknown to Jesus and Jewish biblical monotheism and set yourself free from trinitarian polytheism Kenny 🙂
@Ken Temple
“Nobody justifies child-killing. There is no more Theocratic Israel. That ended in 70 AD. Jesus took the kingdom of God away from political and national Israel.”
Except you did in the alleged past event that your scripture contains. And like I asked if during the second coming Jesus alayhis salam commands his followers to kill the current German people for what their ancestors did during the holocaust. Would that be just Ken? And if you were there during that time would you follow such an order?
“It was a judgement and the language is hyperbole.”
And like I showed that “judgement” was an immoral one. Hyperbole is a nice way of saying fiction. So did “judgement” happen or didn’t it Ken? And how do you know which parts were hyperbole? Not to mention what an evil thing to be hyperbolic about.
“But some strains of Islam still do a ghastly and worse kind of evil aggressive warfare – Al Qaeda, Isis, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Iranian regime, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. They use texts from the Ahadith and Qur’an to justify their actions.”
Just because some dogs of hellfire abuse and misuse our texts doesn’t mean that reflects bad on our religion. Or do you need me to show you examples of Christians and Jews doing the same thing with their objectively worse scripture? I’m still waiting for you to show content from the Islamic texts that is worse than what is described in yours Ken.
At Jesus’ second coming, all unbelievers are judged for their own sins, not for ancestors.
Judgement day is the justice of God.
“Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (do justice) Genesis 18:25
God is always just and good.
Glad you see those guys as “dogs of hellfire”
@Ken Temple
“At Jesus’ second coming, all unbelievers are judged for their own sins, not for ancestors.
Judgement day is the justice of God.
“Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (do justice) Genesis 18:25
God is always just and good.”
First how do you know people won’t be judged based on what their ancestors did? After all that’s exactly what happened in 1 Samuel 15. So are you admitting that the alleged “judgement” God is said to have enacted in that passage was immoral and evil after all?
Kenny, there is no escaping your shameful and deluded beliefs in your ruthless, loveless counterfeit ‘preexisting’ god incarnate Jesus, who as god yhwh commanded the numerous killings, executions and murders of 10,000’s of women, children and animals throughout biblical history.
spot on Vaqas – “And when your criticisms involve double standards and hypocrisy, then people also can call you out for that if they want to as well”
Kenny you are a polytheist who worships a counterfeit Jesus wondering in a maze of error justifying the murder and killings of your ‘pre-existing’ god the son – “Hang you head in shame Ken”
May Alllah cure you Kenny, Ameen
Wrong. No Trinitarian is a polytheist.
You fail at understanding the doctrine in Trinity 101 class, as the very first foundational aspect of the doctrine is that there is only ONE God – Mark 12:29, Deuteronomy 6:4, 1 Corinthians 8:6
@Ken Temple
Even if you claim to be monotheists that doesn’t change anything in terms of your theology. Some Hindus also claim to be monotheists and their theology is the same as yours with their gods sharing a divine substance and yet you still have no problem calling them polytheists do you? And actually all trinitarians are polytheists by virtue of worshiping two Gods by your own standards. Trinitarians always say they worship three persons with one shared being or one “what” and three “whos” and that their theology is not polytheism because of that. The problem is the person of the son incarnated and took upon himself an additional human nature making this “who” a “what” on his own. In other words two “whats” or two God’s. And before you say it no your claim that you don’t worship the human nature(which I still think is disputable) doesn’t help you in this because I’m talking about the persons and the natures attached to them.
Ken said: “You fail at understanding the doctrine in Trinity 101 class”
And you (Ken) fail to understand The God of Abraham class
Jesus Al Masih said:
“Abraham rejoiced to see My day”. see John 8:56-58
Are you going to tell The Father is Jesus?
Wrong Kenny – What you fail to comprehend is ALL Trinitarians are polytheists when assessed against and examined according to Jewish biblical monotheism.
Many professed followers of Jesus quote Deuteronomy 6:4 and proclaim they adhere to one God – Christadelphians, Mormons, JW, Catholics, Modalists, etc ….
Trinitarian theory and definitions may postulate a concept of ‘one’ God, however in reality trinitarian ‘óneness’ is an erroneous innovation, a direct theological contradiction to Jewish Biblical Monotheism and is a concept of ‘óneness’ of a tri-god unknown to Jewish biblical history and unknown to Jesus himself.
You fail to understanding the doctrine of Jewish Biblical Monotheism 101 class Kenny.
Here, let me expose you as a trinitarian polytheist by analyzing Deuteronomy 6:4 you quoted – The Shema.
seeing that you are an expert in understanding the doctrine in Trinity 101 class, please define for us what is the doctrine of Trinity monotheism? and then biblically substantiate your trinitarian theory to illustrate the Shema as proclaimed in Deuteronomy theologically articulates trinitarian ‘óneness’ of God that you assume 🙂
The problem is we (NT Christians and early church up to 500-600s AD) were already the true Monotheists for 6 centuries before Islam started. The NT properly interprets the OT. Islam is anachronistic (reading their own thing back into the OT texts, but Yahweh is NOT the Allah of Islam) and late. Islam is a false religion that guts the glorious truths of the NT, and at the same time, affirms (Surah 5:47; 5:68; 10:94, and many others) (unknowingly, ignorantly) those very Scriptures, the True Injeel is the whole NT 27 books.
Hey buddy,
Let’s stop this fighting, because it is nonsense!
As Traditionalist Muslim, I strongly believe and accept Jesus Christ, and I also accept and believe in Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Job, Adam, Ishmael, Isaac and all Prophets and Messengers.
Khalas(Enough)! Because, Jews, Christians and Muslims are only true Monotheists.
I’m sick of fighting between Christians and Muslims over Monotheism. Can we stop fighting and agree on one thing that we believe and worship same God namely the God of Abraham!? Also, we say in Classic Arabic “AllahuIbrahim” which means The God of Abraham. And we say in Arabic “Musa” which has exactly same meaning with English name Moses. And we say in Arabic “Maryam” to mean mother of Jesus which in Classic English is Mary(Maryam)
I wonder when we will stop fighting.
It was Islam that started the fighting and wars and conquering – Surah 9:5, 9:28-29; 8:39, many Hadith; conquering Byzantine and Persia by aggressive unjust war.
Stop blaming Islam, will ya!?
Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and was glad
Before Abraham was, I am. see John 8:56-58
The God of Abraham was the true God – the Holy Trinity, (One God in 3 persons) which the NT demonstrates and proves and 6 centuries of Christian theology demonstrate.
😡😡😡😡
😜🤣
Ken, you didn’t answer this:
Are you going to tell that The Father is Jesus?
No, the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son; the eternal Son.
But they both are two persons with the same nature / substance = God.
The Word was with God = Jesus the Son was with the Father into eternity past
The Word was God = Jesus the Word has the same nature / essence / substance as God the Father.
John 1:1
@Ken Temple
1)Are the “I AM” statements really a proof of divinity if the human nature/will said them as well? Especially since the tetragrammaton was attached directly to certain entities in scripture rather than a mere reference in the “I AM” statements.
2)Furthermore why couldn’t the father have been the one speaking the “I AM” statements through Jesus alayhis salam as a part of divine revelation?
3)And lastly why couldn’t the “I AM” statements be like what is done in Deuteronomy 7:4, Deuteronomy 17:3, Deuteronomy 28:20, and Deuteronomy 29:5? Where the speaker’s personality is merged with that of God’s voice or revelation.
Because when Jesus spoke these things, the Jews wanted to stone Him for blasphemy, which shows they understood Him as claiming Deity, as being Yahweh in the flesh – John chapter 5:17-18; John chapter 8; John chapter 10; John 19 – read the entire chapters slowly and pray for God to give you guidance.
Hey,
Don’t force us to become Christians.
We don’t need your guidance. Because, Trinity is oximoronic(self contradiction)
I seek refuge from God against the acursed Satan and I seek refuge from God against.
Verily polytheism is the first tool which Satan(may God’s curse be upon him) used in order to misguide people from the right path(siratul mistaqeen).
Verily those who are guided will never be lead astray by anyone among the worlds!
Indeed, whoever disbelieves after their belief, God Almighty will replace them with another people who will believe.
Of course. no force. that is why I use persuasion if you bother to read the NT, the True Injeel – but you have to read it quietly and slowly and ask God for guidance.
@Ken Temple
The Jews being ignorant of their own scripture as you yourself would argue, means that their presented interpretations are inherently flawed.
Moreover is your reply in response to points 1, 2, or 3?
They understood what Jesus was claiming.
What points? My replay answers All of them.
@Ken Temple
Once again the Jews being ignorant of their own scripture as you yourself would argue, means that their presented understanding and interpretations are inherently flawed.
Except many Jews got the right interpretation – all the disciples (except Judas) and the apostle Paul, James, the Lord’s brother – eventually – all the writers of the NT were Jews except one (Luke).
Mark, Matthew, John, Peter, Paul, James, Jude, the writer of Hebrews (Barnabas or Silas), etc. – all Jews.
They were the true Jews.
see Revelation 2:9
and Romans 2:28-29
Philippians 3:3
The NT Jewish believers in Jesus as Messiah, fulfilled the law and prophets, virgin born, Lord, crucified, dead, made alive, resurrected, ascended to heaven – these are the true Jews. Today’s Messianic Jews, like Dr. Michael Brown.
@Ken Temple
You’re missing the point Ken. Regardless of who you designate as “true” Jews the fact remain that by your own standards the Jews you are appealing to are not fully educated on their own scriptures. Thus making any understanding and interpretation of said scripture called into question.
Not to mention I offered three points to question the traditional trinitarian understanding of the alleged “I AM” statements and you ignored all of them for the point about the Jews flawed understanding.
@Ken Temple
“It was Islam that started the fighting and wars and conquering – Surah 9:5, 9:28-29; 8:39, many Hadith; conquering Byzantine and Persia by aggressive unjust war.”
You’ve repeatedly claimed that the wars of Islam were unjust and that the wars of the past of OT and the NT in the second coming were/are justified as a judgement from God. Let me just ask you straight out Ken, when compared to the wars in the OT and the NT of Jesus alayhis salam’s return what is it EXACTLY that you find the wars and laws of Islam to be “unjust”? Again compared to the OT and the NT of Jesus alayhis salam’s return. I want specific details not just generic “oh well you’re God and religion is false therefore the wars are automatically unjust.”
Don’t you see? God Almighty has sealed the heart of Ken, because Ken disbelieved and increased hard in disbelief after proofs have become clear ontu him.
You have done your Dawah(Call or Invitation)
And Ken will be among those Christians whom Jesus Christ will testify against them for telling lies about Jesus(peace be upon him)
Because after Theocratic OT is taken away from Israel, the church age is the program of God on how the Kingdom of spreads, until His second coming. The Kingdom of God spreads by prayer, evangelism, missions, holiness and suffering, NOT War and not by establishment of Sharia law / punishments like in law of Moses for apostasy.
The NT way of discipling apostasy is ex-communication out of the church, not torture or prison or the death penalty.
Islam spreads by aggressive war and conquering an area and establishing Sharia law with punishments to apostates and no freedom for evangelism & no freedom for Muslims to leave Islam. The harshness of Islam demonstrates it’s falsehood. The truth of the gospel spreads by preaching, evangelism and persuasion and grace, not the force of Islam.
The truth of Christ is demonstrated in changing people from the inside by regeneration (being born again) of the Holy Spirit; then as people are changed, families, communities, cities, nations are changed for the better. Islam has no Holy Spirit or internal change, just external laws of force and punishments to keep people in line.
God’s era of grace in the church and evangelism and freedom continues until the Second Coming of Christ, Then Jesus was judge all who did not repent and join Him.
The era of the church and freedom and evangelism is superior to the force of Islam (Hadith – “whoever leaves Islam, kill him”, Qur’an – “death for those who spread corruption in the land”, Dar Al Islam vs. Dar Al Harb, Surah 8:39 “fight until there is not more fitna (rebellion, confusion, turmoil, chaos, mutiny, etc.) “fight until religion is all for Islam, establish Zakat, etc. –
Evangelism, prayer for enemies, persuasion, grace, love, holiness (piety, moral cleanness), suffering for doing right, perseverance are superior to the force, war, aggression, Jihads, punishments, conquering of Islam.
@Ken Temple
With respect Ken you ignored the core of my questions. Which was when COMPARED to the wars of the OT and the second coming how are the wars of Islam unjust? Your reply is filled with generic concepts that assume the validity of one faith over the other rather than the specific details of war and battle comparisons I was looking for.
My assumption is correct (presuppositional Truth) since the NT revelation is Truth and Islam came along 600 years later and seeks to gut the truth out of the true Injeel, and yet also unwittingly affirms the Injeel. (Surah 5:47; 5:68; 10:94; 3:3, etc.)
“Your Word is Truth” John 17:17
For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. John 17:8
The truth of the NT is the words of the Father passed to Jesus, passed to the disciples. The Holy Spirit gives them the complete revelation to lead them into all the Truth. John chapters 14, 15, 16
“Father, restore to Me the glory I had with You before the creation of the world” – John 17:5
demonstrates Jesus’ eternality into the past.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God ( 2 persons in relationship eternally), and the Word was God. (same nature/essence as God the Father)
@Ken Temple
So am I correct at assuming at this point that the only thing making the wars of Islam unjust in your view is the fact that you view it as a false religion? Is that why you are able to overlook the blatant barbarism in the OT and the wars in the second coming? Honesty that makes your consistent preaching against the “unjust” and “warlike” aspects of Islam to be pretty weak, hypocritical, and hard to take seriously.
2nd coming is where total justice will be done. Jesus Al Masih is Just.
God is just in the OT. They are a combination of judgement and also hyperbole (exaggeration) and the wars are not to conquer the whole world, as in Islam, rather it was temporary and limited to the promised land. If they drove the pagans out of the borders of Israel, they were not to go after them in warfare into other countries or areas. But all of that was temporary, at and after 70 AD – there is no more Biblical Israel.
@Ken Temple
Whether it was temporary or not has no bearing on whether it was moral or not. And like I showed that “judgement” was an immoral one. Hyperbole is a nice way of saying fiction. So did “judgement” happen or didn’t it Ken? And how do you know which parts were hyperbole? Not to mention what an evil thing to be hyperbolic about.
The second coming is also when he will come with a sword in his mouth and slay those that do not want him as his king and I’m assuming in the trinitarian mindset god. And since his kingdom is probably going to inhabit the whole world and you just made the implication that conquering the whole world is immoral is the second coming immoral then?
“No, the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son; the eternal Son.”
So Jesus is not The God of Abraham
No Kenny your problem is you, along with trinitarian polytheists were already true polytheists for 6 centuries before Islam started.
Again, let me expose you as a trinitarian polytheist by analyzing Deuteronomy 6:4 you quoted – The Shema.
Seeing that you are an expert in understanding the doctrine of Trinity 101 class, please define for us what is the doctrine of Trinity? and then biblically substantiate your trinitarian theory to illustrate the Shema as proclaimed in Deuteronomy theologically articulates trinitarian ‘óneness’ of God that you assume 🙂
NT revelation expands the Shema of Deut. 6:4 in 1 Corinthians 8:6
Many entire books are written on the doctrine. At the end of this article are many books on the doctrine of the Trinity.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/the-doctrine-of-the-trinity-trinitas-unitas-unitas-trinitas/
“Man-Made religion tries to make God more understandable.”
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/man-made-religion-tries-to-make-god-more-understandable/
Many, many articles on the Doctrine of the Trinity.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/category/the-doctrine-of-the-trinity/page/2/
Wrong Kenny NT revelation directly contradicts the Shema of Deut. 6:4 as also erroneously perverted in 1 Corinthians 8:6.
Again, stop diverting, running away from being exposed as a trinitarian polytheist
Seeing that you are an expert in understanding the doctrine of Trinity 101 class, please define for us what is the doctrine of Trinity? and then biblically substantiate your trinitarian theory to illustrate the Shema as proclaimed in Deuteronomy 6:4 theologically articulates trinitarian ‘óneness’ of God that you assume 🙂
No more time right now to debate. This is the doctrine of the NT and the first 6 centuries before Islam. The Deity of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity.
Since the Qur’an also thought the Injeel is truth, Islam automatically contradicts itself.
No more time for now.
You don’t understand because you cannot understand. Your soul is locked in bondage to your sin and pride and arrogance and rebellion against the true God.
43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of [r]lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
John 8:43-47
Only God can awaken your heart, for your heart is stone.
2 Corinthians 4:6
The same way that God caused the creation of light by “let there be light” in Genesis 1:3, God has to do that in our hearts to cause a person to see the light of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, skillful in teaching, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
The devil has you all (all people, until they repent and trust Christ) captive and only God has the power to grant you repentance.
Only Christians repent to Christ, we (muslims) repent only to The God who creates Christ the prophet and messiah and Christ is not god.
A false god of the mind; and idol of the mind = the Allah of Islam.
So your repentance is a false repentance.
So according to you The God who creates Jesus by his word is The False God?
Jesus always existed as The Son, The Word of God from all eternity past with the Father.
John 1:1 – in the beginning was the Word کلمه logos) and the Word was with God (with the Father) and the Word was God (God by nature).
John 17:5 – “O Father, restore to Me the glory that I had with you before the world was created.” see context from verse 1-5.
Shows the Son was always with the Father into eternity past. (2 persons of the 3 person One God / Trinity – Trinitas Unitas (three in One)
Kenny your soul is locked in bondage to your polytheism sin and pride and arrogance and rebellion against the true God
Actually, the way of the NT is the way to repent of your pride and arrogance.
Philippians 2:1-11
“have this attitude which was in Christ Jesus (v. 5). . . who although He existed always as God, He humbled Himself and became a man, and humbled Himself by allowing Himself to be killed on the as a man – He allowed unjust sinners to spit on him and kill Him without vengeance and spite and rancor.” (paraphrase and application to you, in simple language – the glory of the victory of the cross – defeat of anger and vengeance spirit.
Islam’s spirit is full of vengeance, spite, rancor, malice, hatred, violence, aggressive warfare and conquering (Dar Al Islam vs. Dar Al harb)
John 1:1 – in the beginning was the Word کلمه logos) and the Word was with God (with the Father) and the Word was God (God by nature).
The Word = Jesus
John 1:1 – in the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with the Father and Jesus was God (God by nature).
There were 2 Gods.
In the beginning you already had 2 gods – that is not The God of Abraham.
no; one God in two persons.
with the Holy Spirit, One God in three persons
Trinitas Unitas
and
Unitas Trinitas
three in One
and
One in three
“no; one God in two persons.
with the Holy Spirit, One God in three persons”
Clearly, that is not The God of Abraham
No. Jesus Al Masih clearly said that Abraham looked to Him as the Messiah.
John 8:56-58
that is what the text of Genesis 15:1-6 indicates – belief and trust in Yahweh and in His Messiah who will come from his own body (v. 4)and be the one who will bless all nations (Genesis 12:3; 22:17-18) and defeat Satan. (Genesis 3:15)
Like I said, Jesus is not The God of Abraham
Who is The God of Abraham according to Gospel John?
No answer?
Already answered that.
Too busy with work and life to debate more right now.
Nope, you haven’t answer it.
Don’t worry you can answer anytime, no time limit.
Who is The God of Abraham according to Gospel of John?
What you say Kenny ? – “No, the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son; the eternal Son.
But they both are two persons with the same nature / substance = God”
Oh right kenny so both the Father and Son are 2 distinct divine personal gods that share the same essence/substance of divinity.. Got it! 🙂 Yep your a polytheist!
Sorry Kenny the evidence is against you, the truth of Jewish Biblical monotheism was established many millenniums before the counterfeit trinitarian god myth appeared centuries after Jesus
Jesus did not worship a false tri-god idol like you do, neither did his Disciples kenny lol.. they worshipped God as expressed in the Shema proclaimed in Deuteronomy and supported elsewhere in Deuteronomy:
“Fear the LORD your God, serve HIM ONLY and take your oaths in HIS name” Deuteronomy 6:13
“And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to HIM, to love HIM, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul” Deuteronomy 10:12
“Fear the LORD your God and serve HIM. Hold fast to HIM and take your oaths in HIM name” Deuteronomy 10:20
“So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the LORD your God and to serve HIM with all your heart and with all your soul” Deuteronomy 11:13
Furthermore, according to a pericopes by Jesus worshipped the One God alone … “it is written and FOREVER REMAINS written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and SERVE HIM ONLY ’” and Jesus also affirmed the Lord Thy God “is One and there is no other but HIM”
any post easter myths and beliefs about a tri-god idol is a counterfeit god unknown to Jewish biblical monotheism Kenny
and.. I’ll be waiting you for you when you’re not busy 🙂
(No, the Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son; the eternal Son)
Combining the words Eternal+Son is an absurdity, its like saying this square is a circle, a Son is someone who come to be at a sorten time and as such cannot be “The Eternal”
(But they both are two persons with the same nature / substance = God)
So GOD is like an “incorporated company”? and the board of directors are the Father and the SON?
No wonder christianity is becoming exacting(except by name) in the west, no bright minded person would keep this kind of mumbo jumbo theology as his religion.
Quran
-Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they (polytheists) say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne!
-Glorified is He, and High Exalted above what they say!
-He is God; there is no god but He, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Glory be to God above whatever they associate with Him
“Had Allah willed to take a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He created. But glory be to Him! (He is above such things). He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible” – 39:4
@Mahdi
سلام مهدی
Except John 1:1 and John 17:5 and Philippians 2:5-8 and Malachi 5:2 demonstrate that the Son / the Word existed into eternity past, with the Father.
sorry, I meant Micah 5:2 – “His days are from eternity”; not Malachi
Micah 5:2 (NASB)
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will come forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His times of coming forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”
You’re a deluded polytheist Kenny Lol Micah who describes the “ruler” has nothing to do with God the Son literally pre-existing from ‘eternity’ lol…
Matthew references Micah 5:2 giving insight as to what the meaning of the verse:
Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king… When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them WHERE the Christ was to be BORN. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet: And you, Bethlehem, the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.’
Moreover, Micah also indicates that this human “ruler” has a God
Micah 5:4 “And He will arise and shepherd His flock in the strength of the LORD, In the majesty of the name of the LORD His God. And they will remain, because at that time He will be great to the ends of the earth”
Kenny read here for more details and be sincere and abandon your deluded trinitarian misinterpretations 🙂
https://onegodworship.com/did-micah-prophesy-that-jesus-preexisted/
Your erroneous, faulty trinitarian eisegesis in interpreting Micah in such a way as to introduce your own polytheistic presuppositions and biases into the Hebrew biblical text.
Kenny, the contextual meaning illustrates the verse is a reference to the human ruler’s ancient ancestral origins in Bethlehem, with the dynasty of David in focus of Micah message.
lol… Sorry Kenny nothing about a literal GOD SON Messiah originating from eternity in Micah 🙂
The entire message may be in reference to a ruler from the Messianic king David born in Bethlehem, the home of Jesus’ ancient ancestors where his genealogical lineage began in ancient times. 🙂
Here Kenny look into this further 🙂
https://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/Micah5_2.html
I thought these might have been among your top favorite vile passages:
1 Kings 14:24:
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
1 Kings 15:12:
And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
1 Kings 22:46:
And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.
2 Kings 23:7:
And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.
and why would that be so banana Erasmus?
Micah 7:14 – “Shepherd Your people with Your scepter, the flock of Your possession which dwells by itself in the woodland, in the midst of a fruitful field. Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead as in the days of old”
Were Jews feeding the flock from ancient ‘eternity’ Kenny??? lol… 🙂