I bought this today. It looks amazing. And just see who has written the forwards!
Categories: Anti-Islam, Apostasy, Books, Dr Tim Winter, Islam, Islamophobia, Life in the West, Recommended reading
Apostate
I bought this today. It looks amazing. And just see who has written the forwards!
Categories: Anti-Islam, Apostasy, Books, Dr Tim Winter, Islam, Islamophobia, Life in the West, Recommended reading
will you review it?
Perhaps, when I get round to reading it!
I would be really curious to see what they wrote in the forward. Last time Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad had quoted from Professor Kamali’s work, “Freedom of Expression in Islam” and was subsequently taken to task by Gibril Fouad Haddad (who seems to be the police of all things) ‘Ahl Sunnah”. Then Shaykh Hamza Yusuf made some comments about it in a forum where he said it was weird to have a religion that said you can’t kill frogs but than it’s o.k to kill people who leave the religion.
I think the problem that both of them face is touting the “traditionalism” line and than really coming out against the ‘ijma.
Certainly there is a great deal of ambiguity regarding this so called, “apostasy laws”. I wrote a bit on that here if you are interested: https://primaquran.com/2020/09/03/refuting-death-for-apostasy/
Do let us know what you think of the book!
There’s nothing that you can write that can refute the consensus on the issue, as if the thousands upon thousands of scholars weren’t aware of all the points of contention on this issue. It isn’t weird in any way if you also happen to know that insults in the public are also prone to discretionary punishment, furthermore scholars typically agree on the 3 day rule that the apostate has a conversation with a knowledgeable scholar to discuss his doubts and all. Some extend it to larger periods.
It is another point in which there is no real consensus on the issue. Did I leave Islam if I say the Qur’an is created? Is there consensus on this? Is the agreed amount time 3 days? You sure you have consensus on this? Are both men and women subject to this punishment? You sure you have consensus on that?
We don’t even have consensus on the way the Blessed Messenger (saw) prayed! That was a mass transmitted practice!
So no the “thousands of scholars” that you imagine even tackled this issue did not cover all of the bases. Thank you.
@primaquran
You’re mixing up between two issues (while they’re relevant, the epistemological connection between the two is moot at best) which are excommunication (takfir) and the actual act of renouncing Islam publicly.
Someone stops being a Muslim when he does something that contradicts the meaning (or the implications) of the two shahadas. For the Qur’an being created issue, even if some scholars made some generic statements of course it depends on the specific person, and there are excuses such as pure ignorance from the part of the speaker, and when the issue is cleared to him he makes up his mind and follows what doesn’t contradict the Qur’an and Sunnah on that issue.
For the specific amount, again that’s a detail that’s best left for the scholars to debate. The point being that there’s a consensus that they are punished after being given a period and chance of having a scholarly discussion (everyone agrees that it’s death for males).
> We don’t even have consensus on the way the Blessed Messenger (saw) prayed! That was a mass transmitted practice!
We don’t have consensus on some very minute and subtle aspects of it (that a non-believer would just see as Muslims trying to be pedantic). This is irrelevant.