Home›Bible›It is quite obvious those who tout Judeo-Christian values as the foundation of Western civilisation and are critical of Islam have never read the Old Testament.
It is quite obvious those who tout Judeo-Christian values as the foundation of Western civilisation and are critical of Islam have never read the Old Testament.
This’s an interesting subject. Personally, I don’t think Qur’an nor the bible are compatible with western values as they are today if the Qur’an and the bible are taken seriously.
However, I don’t understand why it’s possible for jews and christians to be hypocrites when it comes to their scripture, but not muslims. Islam can be pervaded culturally in the West, yet many hypocrites among jews and christians refuse that! And when we ask them why? They say “Islam is not compatible with the western values!” Ok, so is the Bible! But all the story is that you permit for yourselves (i.e. jews and christians) to be hypocrites and ignore big chunks in your religion to the favor of secularism.That’s it.
Based on that, why are not muslims allowed to do the same? That’s what Reza Aslan keeps asking! Notice I’m not saying this’s right or wrong, but I’m simply pointing to the double standards here.
If you read for the hypocrite, dr. Jordan Peterson, for example (and I intend to writhe some thoughts about his book 12 rules insha’ Allah), you would surprise by the amount of celebration and joy in how the bible is a major ingredient of the western civilization, and new atheists don’t know what they are talking about, yet at the end of the day, Jordan Peterson tells you that you should read the bible as a book of psychology which records the humans’ struggle with this universe, and how the human can understand it. In other words, he’s telling yo “don’t take that book seriously.” It’s just a respectful experience of humans’ struggle which got recorded in a book.
So what’s the problem if a muslim wants to do the same from their point of view? They would cry loudly no!
Thank you for the well thought out comment. I agree fundamentally that those who argue against the Qur’an that it ‘contradicts western values’ often have not understood that the Bible also comes into conflict in the much the same way, for example with homosexuality, gender issues, etc…
The problem, however, is more than that since western values are not fixed nor do they always reference the same sources which informed liberalism in the past due to the changing of time which may cause one to overturn its core positions such as relates to the superiority of democracy, secularism, and the rights of the individual over the collective. Liberalism (the philosophy which emerged in the 18th century) was established in a society that was very different from our own in the sense that Christianity was the established foundation on ethics and anthropology which in turn affected many other areas of civic life as we were, of course, informed by classical philosophy and were aware of our literary canon which expressed things like chivalry and whatnot.
I think it was Christopher Hitchens who once observed that people in the past would have ‘recited Isaiah off by heart and been very familiar with the Pilgrim’s Progress’; in other words, they would have had a clearer idea of that past tradition and continued to honor and be shaped by it when liberalism and conservatism were being thought out. That is not the case today as now we are defined more by the traumas of the two world wars and the fallout from Communism and the collapse of Imperialism.
Therefore, it’s no surprise that what people like Jordan Peterson say about the Bible can seem confused or contradictory since it’s like a clash of two worlds that have little to do with each other (modern western values vs religion (tradition)) trying to be harmonized via said contemporary assumptions of the enlightenment: man is essentially a creature of reason rather than of emotion whom can be changed through a change of opinions since by nature he is good and reasonable.
“They say “Islam is not compatible with the western values!” Ok, so is the Bible! But all the story is that you permit for yourselves (i.e. jews and christians) to be hypocrites and ignore big chunks in your religion to the favor of secularism.That’s it.”
“you permit for yourselves…….”
Who is meant by “you” here? Every single Christian in the West? How do you know? Are you omniscient?
How do you know what each individual church is ignoring or not ignoring? Are you omnipresent or something?
Not obvious to me.
that’s because you don’t know anything.
So please explain the point. Saying he doesn’t know anything., doesn’t clarify your point.
because there are many similarities between the Jewish faith and Islam – on monotheism; the law and its role vis a vis ethics and society; etc.
This’s an interesting subject. Personally, I don’t think Qur’an nor the bible are compatible with western values as they are today if the Qur’an and the bible are taken seriously.
However, I don’t understand why it’s possible for jews and christians to be hypocrites when it comes to their scripture, but not muslims. Islam can be pervaded culturally in the West, yet many hypocrites among jews and christians refuse that! And when we ask them why? They say “Islam is not compatible with the western values!” Ok, so is the Bible! But all the story is that you permit for yourselves (i.e. jews and christians) to be hypocrites and ignore big chunks in your religion to the favor of secularism.That’s it.
Based on that, why are not muslims allowed to do the same? That’s what Reza Aslan keeps asking!
Notice I’m not saying this’s right or wrong, but I’m simply pointing to the double standards here.
If you read for the hypocrite, dr. Jordan Peterson, for example (and I intend to writhe some thoughts about his book 12 rules insha’ Allah), you would surprise by the amount of celebration and joy in how the bible is a major ingredient of the western civilization, and new atheists don’t know what they are talking about, yet at the end of the day, Jordan Peterson tells you that you should read the bible as a book of psychology which records the humans’ struggle with this universe, and how the human can understand it. In other words, he’s telling yo “don’t take that book seriously.” It’s just a respectful experience of humans’ struggle which got recorded in a book.
So what’s the problem if a muslim wants to do the same from their point of view? They would cry loudly no!
Hi Abdullah
Thank you for the well thought out comment. I agree fundamentally that those who argue against the Qur’an that it ‘contradicts western values’ often have not understood that the Bible also comes into conflict in the much the same way, for example with homosexuality, gender issues, etc…
The problem, however, is more than that since western values are not fixed nor do they always reference the same sources which informed liberalism in the past due to the changing of time which may cause one to overturn its core positions such as relates to the superiority of democracy, secularism, and the rights of the individual over the collective. Liberalism (the philosophy which emerged in the 18th century) was established in a society that was very different from our own in the sense that Christianity was the established foundation on ethics and anthropology which in turn affected many other areas of civic life as we were, of course, informed by classical philosophy and were aware of our literary canon which expressed things like chivalry and whatnot.
I think it was Christopher Hitchens who once observed that people in the past would have ‘recited Isaiah off by heart and been very familiar with the Pilgrim’s Progress’; in other words, they would have had a clearer idea of that past tradition and continued to honor and be shaped by it when liberalism and conservatism were being thought out. That is not the case today as now we are defined more by the traumas of the two world wars and the fallout from Communism and the collapse of Imperialism.
Therefore, it’s no surprise that what people like Jordan Peterson say about the Bible can seem confused or contradictory since it’s like a clash of two worlds that have little to do with each other (modern western values vs religion (tradition)) trying to be harmonized via said contemporary assumptions of the enlightenment: man is essentially a creature of reason rather than of emotion whom can be changed through a change of opinions since by nature he is good and reasonable.
It’s a confusing situation for sure!
well said
“They say “Islam is not compatible with the western values!” Ok, so is the Bible! But all the story is that you permit for yourselves (i.e. jews and christians) to be hypocrites and ignore big chunks in your religion to the favor of secularism.That’s it.”
“you permit for yourselves…….”
Who is meant by “you” here? Every single Christian in the West? How do you know? Are you omniscient?
How do you know what each individual church is ignoring or not ignoring? Are you omnipresent or something?
Whaat? To save my/your time. https://i.imgur.com/EzHimhi.jpg