Definitely, mental disorder (event hough I find Dr.Umar ridiculous and annoying his studies more or less confirmed my personal anecdotal discussion, before ever listening to him is that it appears to usually be caused by molestation) Starts @ 2:34
How can one tell its a disorder? Look at their mental condition. Your sexual preference doesn’t do a 180 on your personality (as seen when men “come out the closet”) And generally many have other mental issues (cutting themselves, high rates of suicide, etc)
I would probably agree with Paul that the etiology is yet to be established scientifically. The idea of a connection is a matter of disput by medics, The mental disease theory as abandoned many years ago, though could you not say the same of the other mental issues are a result of the socially difficult situation of being homosexual.
As I said this is not something I can 100% say with scientific facts or data this is just my observations actually speaking with homosexuals (and of course you can accept or reject that and I wouldn’t knock you). Even one of the links you posted semi agrees with me:
“the results of this research is inconclusive since some research finds a direct correlation between child abuse and homosexuality (Macmillan, 1997; Tomeo et al, 2001; Holmes et al, 1998; Doll et al, 1992; Soukup, 1995; Shrier et al, 1988; Dickson; Finkelhor, 1984), whereas other research expressly denies any correlational link (Ridley, 2003; Balsam et al 2005; Bell et al, 1981; Hammersmith, 1982; Peters & Cantrall, 1991; Slap, 1998). Clearly, the jury is still out!”
If I wasn’t Muslim would I hold the same view? Probably so. (Note that does NOT mean I think every homosexual would then do sexual abuse) But as a Muslim, I have the luxury of revelation. If it was a natural thing for humans (which even from an evolutionary/ biological stance makes no sense) it wouldn’t be classified as a sin because God doesn’t declare something forbidden unless the overall sum of that thing brings harm. There is no doubt in my mind its a learned behavior at the very least but from where at this point in time we have nothing conclusive to pinpoint.
Exactly, that’s why I said it is disputed by the medics.
One rub with the religious point of view, though is that homosexual behavior is also found in animals.
I know that’s why I said among humans. Since we’re just speaking theology, the argument of what animals do is irrelevant in Islam. Animals do lots of things that are forbidden to us (and vice versa) everything has its place and orders.
“the other mental issues are a result of the socially difficult situation of being homosexual.
Kinda weak because there are plenty of minority populations in society (say for example to keep it within sex people who do polygamy) who don’t have these types of issues.
I think it holds water, if you feel bad or are mentally out of balance you will resort to such things. The point with the animals though is there seems to be a biological dimension as well.
As you are so big on “traditional” values, do you share the oldschool view of homosexuality as mental desease?
Yes. Though it is not a ‘disease’. Its etiology is yet to be established scientifically. It is a disorder of some kind.
Mental disorder ok
What do you mean “It is a disorder of some kind” – is that the Muslim view?
@ Doctorhealthyself
Definitely, mental disorder (event hough I find Dr.Umar ridiculous and annoying his studies more or less confirmed my personal anecdotal discussion, before ever listening to him is that it appears to usually be caused by molestation) Starts @ 2:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBpu_MWxYtM
How can one tell its a disorder? Look at their mental condition. Your sexual preference doesn’t do a 180 on your personality (as seen when men “come out the closet”) And generally many have other mental issues (cutting themselves, high rates of suicide, etc)
Good point.
I would probably agree with Paul that the etiology is yet to be established scientifically. The idea of a connection is a matter of disput by medics, The mental disease theory as abandoned many years ago, though could you not say the same of the other mental issues are a result of the socially difficult situation of being homosexual.
https://www.pflagatl.org/the-problem-with-the-belief-that-child-sexual-abuse-causes-homosexuality-bisexuality/
http://www.brainblogger.com/2016/11/21/homosexuality-link-to-child-sex-abuse-confirmed-gender-nonconformity/
@ Doctorhealthyself
As I said this is not something I can 100% say with scientific facts or data this is just my observations actually speaking with homosexuals (and of course you can accept or reject that and I wouldn’t knock you). Even one of the links you posted semi agrees with me:
“the results of this research is inconclusive since some research finds a direct correlation between child abuse and homosexuality (Macmillan, 1997; Tomeo et al, 2001; Holmes et al, 1998; Doll et al, 1992; Soukup, 1995; Shrier et al, 1988; Dickson; Finkelhor, 1984), whereas other research expressly denies any correlational link (Ridley, 2003; Balsam et al 2005; Bell et al, 1981; Hammersmith, 1982; Peters & Cantrall, 1991; Slap, 1998). Clearly, the jury is still out!”
If I wasn’t Muslim would I hold the same view? Probably so. (Note that does NOT mean I think every homosexual would then do sexual abuse) But as a Muslim, I have the luxury of revelation. If it was a natural thing for humans (which even from an evolutionary/ biological stance makes no sense) it wouldn’t be classified as a sin because God doesn’t declare something forbidden unless the overall sum of that thing brings harm. There is no doubt in my mind its a learned behavior at the very least but from where at this point in time we have nothing conclusive to pinpoint.
Exactly, that’s why I said it is disputed by the medics.
One rub with the religious point of view, though is that homosexual behavior is also found in animals.
@ Doctorhealthyself
I know that’s why I said among humans. Since we’re just speaking theology, the argument of what animals do is irrelevant in Islam. Animals do lots of things that are forbidden to us (and vice versa) everything has its place and orders.
@ Doc
Also, I forgot I personally find the argument:
“the other mental issues are a result of the socially difficult situation of being homosexual.
Kinda weak because there are plenty of minority populations in society (say for example to keep it within sex people who do polygamy) who don’t have these types of issues.
I think it holds water, if you feel bad or are mentally out of balance you will resort to such things. The point with the animals though is there seems to be a biological dimension as well.