There’s a concept in Islam that is that life is a test for the hereafter. Whatever Allah ‘sends’ down to us is a test be it a good thing or bad. You can be blessed with wealth, but the test is how you use it. Same with death. It’s all about how you let it affect you…etc.
Atheists think that just because something appears to be a “bad” design or is harmful, then it couldn’t be designed by a supreme being. It’s a poor non-sequitur.
OK, but how can you account for the pain and suffering caused to a newborn or small child. In what way is it a test for them? And before mankind arrived on the scene, for many millions of years sentient animals were suffering and dying in horrible ways. Were they being tested too?
Maybe they are who knows? But the afterlife is forever and any wrong or injustice will be righted and recompense given. But you are diverting from the post. You must surely see the design in nature that indicates an Intelligence at work in the universe. Materialism cannot convincingly explain the extraordinary complex biological machines we see in the cell.
So the question to you is why do you deny a Divine Intelligence? Simply saying that a child has suffered and died (but is now with God in heaven) is not a good response!
If there were no difficulties for those who appear innocent to us like newborns, small children, and animals, then the test for all of us who are adults or teen-agers would evaporate and disappear.
We would no longer be operating in the conditions of a valid test.
Now, again as Paul said, those who are innocent and suffer wrongs, they will be fully compensated.
And God is not only just but He is also generous.
Thus, those who deserve a reward will not only get their reward but they will get more than the reward out of Gods generosity.
1. Viruses themselves have positives:
“The word, virus, connotes morbidity and mortality, but that bad reputation is not universally deserved…Viruses, like bacteria, can be important beneficial microbes in human health and in agriculture”
Regarding children/ sentient organic life multiple points hard to do in writing. All things perceived as evil will ultimately bring good whether we see it in this life or the Next. This is what the entirety of the story of Moses(as) and Khidr is supposed to teach. Too long to explain everything but basically Moses(as) is told to study under some guy. Guy tells him not to ask any questions when they travel and then damages a boat, kills a child and repairs a wall for some people that were mean to them while traveling. Moses(as) naturally shocked kept asking questions until the man finally told him. He damaged the boat because in a few days a king will come taking every serviceable boat by force and these guys were fishermen who made their living through it. Regarding the child, he would grow up and be an oppressor and through his evil, his parents who believed in God would disbelieve and go to Hell. So the boy was killed and God would replace him with a good daughter (and because he died they would all reunite in heaven). Regarding the town with bad people, there were two orphans in the town whose parents were good. The wall that was going to fall had some treasure underneath. If it fell then they were too young to stop the bad people from taking it. So he reaired it so it would last until they were older.
The purpose of this tale is to show God wills both good and evil, just because you think something is bad doesn’t necessarily mean it is. Finally, this point can further branch depending on if the person is a believer or disbeliever:
1.Believer- purification of sin. The Prophet(saw) said if a believer steps on a thorn and their patient about it, their sin is forgiven. It can be a means of getting an even better reward whether in this life or the Next etc. The Prophet(saw) said the situation for the believer is always good if were patient when bad things happen we are rewarded. And if we are thankful when good things happen we are rewarded.
2. Disbeliever- Can be a means of punishment in this life as an appetizer for the Next. Can be a means of making the person come back to God (for example when people have near-death experiences) etc
As I said I haven’t nearly exhausted this topic (as this is mostly off the top of my head what I remember) and for brevity sake, I didn’t quote Quran or hadith discussing the topic.
Regarding viruses, to expand on your point about their benefits, there are viruses called bacteriophages that specifically infect only bacterial cells and will kill them. They do not infect humans.
Also, viruses have been used in gene therapy to deliver a healthy gene to replace the defective one in a patient. The idea is to cure the patient who suffers from a disease like cystic fibrosis. While most such treatments are still the research phase, they show promising results.
And to further show the ingratitude that I discussed, Imam Ar Razi when discussing God’s name “Ar-Rahman” (The Most Merciful) basically says many ways this name manifests itself is through medicine. He (who was a proto doctor himself) had discussed Galen (again REALLY proto doctor in Western medicine) who himself said he just one day had a dream about what veins are etc. When I read that I thought about the guy who “discovered” penicillin same thing. If God wills the combating of harmful viruses is probably real simple as well and will just “pop” into somebody’s head one day. Will they be grateful? Nope, they pull the Aad and say it was through “man’s intellect” we discovered this, never needed God, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, good point. Alexander Fleming discovered penicillin by mistake. He just left some Petri dishes with bacteria and went away for a while only to discover later that mold had started to grow that was killing the bacteria. Sure, Fleming discovered penicillin, but who put it there to be discovered? It was God.
Lol, why do atheists always use theological arguments when trying to deny the existence of God?
But to answer your silly question, yes they are beautiful in their own way. No one said that creation is meant to be infinite. It is finite. The afterlife is infinite, so things like viruses will not exist anymore because there will be no death.
What it tell us about Allah is that He has created a finite world where life isn’t perfect. There will be suffering. There will be disease.
A biological assembly line. The creation of Allah (swt) is amazing and beautiful.
The creation of Allah also includes viruses and malaria. Amazing and beautiful too? What might this tell us about Allah – if anything?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHrph7zDLw
I assume you are being sarcastic as you do not believe in God Andy.
No, I’m genuinely interested.
There’s a concept in Islam that is that life is a test for the hereafter. Whatever Allah ‘sends’ down to us is a test be it a good thing or bad. You can be blessed with wealth, but the test is how you use it. Same with death. It’s all about how you let it affect you…etc.
Andy,
Yes, viruses and bacteria are also intelligent design which proves they were specially created by an Intelligent Designer.
Atheists think that just because something appears to be a “bad” design or is harmful, then it couldn’t be designed by a supreme being. It’s a poor non-sequitur.
No it doesn’t. It’s compatible with the idea at best.
Back up to 10 words. This virus just can’t make up its mind due to natural selection pressures. Final assessment still pending.
OK, but how can you account for the pain and suffering caused to a newborn or small child. In what way is it a test for them? And before mankind arrived on the scene, for many millions of years sentient animals were suffering and dying in horrible ways. Were they being tested too?
Maybe they are who knows? But the afterlife is forever and any wrong or injustice will be righted and recompense given. But you are diverting from the post. You must surely see the design in nature that indicates an Intelligence at work in the universe. Materialism cannot convincingly explain the extraordinary complex biological machines we see in the cell.
So the question to you is why do you deny a Divine Intelligence? Simply saying that a child has suffered and died (but is now with God in heaven) is not a good response!
Hi Andy,
If there were no difficulties for those who appear innocent to us like newborns, small children, and animals, then the test for all of us who are adults or teen-agers would evaporate and disappear.
We would no longer be operating in the conditions of a valid test.
Now, again as Paul said, those who are innocent and suffer wrongs, they will be fully compensated.
And God is not only just but He is also generous.
Thus, those who deserve a reward will not only get their reward but they will get more than the reward out of Gods generosity.
Please, for your own self check out the Qur’an at https://www.islamawakened.com/
The website above is nice as it gives many different translations for each verse so you can be sure what it means.
Peace to you,
Ihsan
@ Andy
You’ve made several assumptions in your analogy:
1. Viruses themselves have positives:
“The word, virus, connotes morbidity and mortality, but that bad reputation is not universally deserved…Viruses, like bacteria, can be important beneficial microbes in human health and in agriculture”
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150430170750.htm
This will translate to pint 2
2. Islam does not believe in absolute evil
Regarding children/ sentient organic life multiple points hard to do in writing. All things perceived as evil will ultimately bring good whether we see it in this life or the Next. This is what the entirety of the story of Moses(as) and Khidr is supposed to teach. Too long to explain everything but basically Moses(as) is told to study under some guy. Guy tells him not to ask any questions when they travel and then damages a boat, kills a child and repairs a wall for some people that were mean to them while traveling. Moses(as) naturally shocked kept asking questions until the man finally told him. He damaged the boat because in a few days a king will come taking every serviceable boat by force and these guys were fishermen who made their living through it. Regarding the child, he would grow up and be an oppressor and through his evil, his parents who believed in God would disbelieve and go to Hell. So the boy was killed and God would replace him with a good daughter (and because he died they would all reunite in heaven). Regarding the town with bad people, there were two orphans in the town whose parents were good. The wall that was going to fall had some treasure underneath. If it fell then they were too young to stop the bad people from taking it. So he reaired it so it would last until they were older.
The purpose of this tale is to show God wills both good and evil, just because you think something is bad doesn’t necessarily mean it is. Finally, this point can further branch depending on if the person is a believer or disbeliever:
1.Believer- purification of sin. The Prophet(saw) said if a believer steps on a thorn and their patient about it, their sin is forgiven. It can be a means of getting an even better reward whether in this life or the Next etc. The Prophet(saw) said the situation for the believer is always good if were patient when bad things happen we are rewarded. And if we are thankful when good things happen we are rewarded.
2. Disbeliever- Can be a means of punishment in this life as an appetizer for the Next. Can be a means of making the person come back to God (for example when people have near-death experiences) etc
As I said I haven’t nearly exhausted this topic (as this is mostly off the top of my head what I remember) and for brevity sake, I didn’t quote Quran or hadith discussing the topic.
👏
Nice!
Regarding viruses, to expand on your point about their benefits, there are viruses called bacteriophages that specifically infect only bacterial cells and will kill them. They do not infect humans.
Also, viruses have been used in gene therapy to deliver a healthy gene to replace the defective one in a patient. The idea is to cure the patient who suffers from a disease like cystic fibrosis. While most such treatments are still the research phase, they show promising results.
@ QB
And to further show the ingratitude that I discussed, Imam Ar Razi when discussing God’s name “Ar-Rahman” (The Most Merciful) basically says many ways this name manifests itself is through medicine. He (who was a proto doctor himself) had discussed Galen (again REALLY proto doctor in Western medicine) who himself said he just one day had a dream about what veins are etc. When I read that I thought about the guy who “discovered” penicillin same thing. If God wills the combating of harmful viruses is probably real simple as well and will just “pop” into somebody’s head one day. Will they be grateful? Nope, they pull the Aad and say it was through “man’s intellect” we discovered this, never needed God, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, good point. Alexander Fleming discovered penicillin by mistake. He just left some Petri dishes with bacteria and went away for a while only to discover later that mold had started to grow that was killing the bacteria. Sure, Fleming discovered penicillin, but who put it there to be discovered? It was God.
Lol, why do atheists always use theological arguments when trying to deny the existence of God?
But to answer your silly question, yes they are beautiful in their own way. No one said that creation is meant to be infinite. It is finite. The afterlife is infinite, so things like viruses will not exist anymore because there will be no death.
What it tell us about Allah is that He has created a finite world where life isn’t perfect. There will be suffering. There will be disease.
and there will be fundamentalist missionaries…
@ Paul
I know nobody likes a “know it all” but that’s technically a disease Paul.