ISIS, Boko Haram and other terrorist organizations that using Islam for their action are not Islamic and against Islamic teaching. Therefore we are as Muslim must stand up in the first line to speak up against them.
It seems to me that all of this problem with those Muslims you have pointed out – and also others on other issues – namely your frustration with other Muslims also on other issues (not terrorism or violence, but other things – hypocrisy ?, control behind the scenes?, hiding or suppressing videos, etc. ?) (your comments and problems with Adnan Rashid and Abdullah and MDI, etc. – and your comments about Metanoia (Repentance) Taubeh, توبه (we have that in Farsi, coming from the Arabic) 😉
all of this shows that the Bible and Christianity is right about mankind in his/her heart / soul / inner person – as C. S. Lewis wrote – “The Christians are right – the root of sin is pride or arrogance or self-conceit” – Mere Christianity, “The Great Sin” – read the whole chapter – everyone. Original sin and corruption in the heart / soul / mind – selfishness, pride, arrogance, etc.
The Bible is correct is about the corruption of the heart of humans.
Genesis 6:5
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Mark 7:20-23
And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride [arrogance, conceit, self-centered selfishness] and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
Only in the Gospel of Jesus Christ [the full message of the New Testament] can the sickness and evil of the heart of man be changed.
John 3:1-21
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Mark 1:15 – repent and believe the gospel
Mark 10:45 & Mark 14:24 – must trust in the final atoning sacrifice / ransom for sin – even the Qur’an unwittingly points to this in Surah 37:107
Ken Temple, maybe you forget, Jesus (pbuh) is one of the Islamic prophet. We are following Jesus’s teaching and not only that we are following all of the prophet’s teaching from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon all of them).
All of the prophet’s teaching came from one source, Allah. Now, we have the last and final teaching from Allah that was revealed to Muhammad (pbuh) as the last messenger of Allah, its called Quran which is valid forever until the judgement day.
The duty of Muslim is just to follow Quran and Hadits and pass these messages to others. It’s not our duty to convert someone to become a Muslim.
And we are not worried about Quran because Allah himself would take care of it.
Jesus (pbuh) is one of the Islamic prophet.
This is an anachronistic claim that has no basis in historical fact. The Qur’anic Jesus never existed; it is 600 year late construction out of Muhammad’s mind (or with others who compiled things together). The Qur’an shows no knowledge of the previous Scriptures – mostly the good aspects that it got were within the apocryphal gospels and heretical sects and Jewish Midrash (mixture of exaggerations from OT).
We are following Jesus’s teaching . . .
You claim to; but you don’t really. Ignoring the teachings of the NT is ignoring the true Injeel.
. . . and not only that we are following all of the prophet’s teaching from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon all of them).
Even that is wrong – because there is a lot that is ignored from the OT (Tanakh), with claims that the Jews lied and changed their Scriptures.
@ Ken
I have to ask how do you get around being such a retard? To begin let me teach you about your theology, yes in Christianity jesus(as) is considered a prophet dumb@$$:
Next the Quran actually quotes previous Scriptures so once again you’ve shown not only not to know you’re religion but others as well.
The NT is NOT the Gospel again even in your theology:
And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people. (Matthew 4:23 )
Was he(as) reading Timothy, Romans, Galatians etc? No.
Oh look at that your fellow Trinitarians agree with me, lol:
You claim what we say about Jesus(as) didn’t exist but the Jewish Christians disagree with you and funny enough agree with us.
Finally, please stop talking about politics as you have been shown time and time again on this blog to be retarded concerning the subject. (Again to show your ignorance not arguing with God does not extend to the Caliph that was you all who gave the Pope that authority. Also I find it funny you always like to take credit for the West (which is secular btw) but never acknowledge when it does wrong. Why is that I wonder?)
What you did Paul was point out hypocrisy – and it seems that in order to defend Islam in the west, many Muslims don’t know how to respond to your asking questions and pointing out hypocrisy.
Surah 5:101(don’t ask too many questions – it will distress and upset and hurt you) and 33:36 (cannot question Muhammad’s decision in a matter) created environment in Islam against asking too many questions.
Many Muslims have told me this.
It would be dangerous to allow some kind of authority like a Caliphate, etc. anymore, because of this problem of not questioning Islam.
The leaders of Iran (Ayatollah Khomeini and others) (even though Shiite, the same mentality is all over Muslim world) have said, “it is ok to lie and do other sins in order to defend Islam” (there are several YouTube videos documenting this) – that attitude is prevalent among Muslim leaders. The examples of other dictators all over middle east, etc. is the same basic thing – Saudi, Hafez Al Assad and Bashir Al Assad, Mobarak in Egypt, Saddam Hussein, etc.
But the west has centuries long development of accountability systems – there are checks and balances (beginning with Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, US Constitution, separation of powers, European Parliamentary systems, 3 branches of government in US that provide checks and balances and also freedom of religion and freedom of the press to expose secrets and lies when government is complicit and guilty.) built in after centuries of learning that the heart of man (humans) is evil and there must be accountability.
“Surah 5:101 – don’t ask too many questions – it will distress and upset and hurt you.
and 33:36 -cannot question Muhammad’s decision in a matter.”
And when you’re version of the second coming of Christ occurs will the “godman” allow questions the likes of which i ask you ken? Will the “godman” allow people to question his decisions on matters? Will he allow freedom of religion?
“Dictatorship, Al Jabbar (the one who forces, the tryant), Kheir ol Makareen (Allah is the very best deceiver / trickster / schemer)”
you’ve already been responded to on these points multiple times.
I have to ask, do you honesty think still spewing this rhetoric will convert us ken? Because I got to tell you at least for the people on this blog it’s not working.
Only the Holy Spirit behind the scenes, invisibly working in the heart with God using questioning and thinking about the content of the words, etc. spoken in evangelism and apologetics, only God the invisible can convert a heart.
2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
It is not my job or any other Christians job to convert people. Our job is to speak the truth, defend the truth, in a proper manner; and we pray for God to work in hearts.
The responses to those issues do not make the questions or the problems in Islam go away. The responses have been inadequate.
I disagree. Besides the same can certainly be said of you ken. Case in point you ignored the first half of my reply pointing out you’re hypocrisy. So i’ll just ask it again, when you’re version of the second coming of Christ occurs will the “godman” allow questions the likes of which i ask you ken? Will the “godman” allow people to question his decisions on matters? Will he allow freedom of religion?
I understand your point. You are right in that we do not have the right to demand God He answer us in something. In Christianity, is ok to struggle and question, but it not ok to demand (the book of Job, etc.). It is not right to question in the sense of rebelling against God’s commandments or principles. But Islam claims almost equal status for Muhammad to God; in Surah 33:36
It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.”
Since we find it ridiculous that Muhammad is a prophet or anything of divine revelation coming 600 years later with a subjective claim and then anachronistically claiming to be the same as OT prophets and NT Jesus but cutting out most of NT, etc. yet retaining Jesus’ virgin birth, Islam seems crazy . . . also, all the unjust wars and treatment of women and Hadith crazy things like dipping a fly into your food or drink, etc. the Hadith about pulling out during sex before ejaculation with the sex slaves, captives of war, etc. – all of this combines together as demonstrating your religion is false; and so, yeah, I question the decisions of your false god and false prophet.
On judgement day, Jesus, the God-man, will justly slay all unbelievers. 2 Thessalonians 1, Revelation chapter 19 – He will wage righteous just war.
“But Islam claims almost equal status for Muhammad to God; in Surah 33:36”
Another lie, not even worth refuting.
“On judgement day, Jesus, the God-man, will justly slay all unbelievers. 2 Thessalonians 1, Revelation chapter 19 – He will wage righteous just war.”
Another example of why Kennywise is a clown who is fully deserving of all the mockery he gets.
Notice how “slaying all unbelievers” simply for exercising their right to choose is now called a “just war” by this demonic clown.
Meanwhile, his mangod is the same one who also allowed the taking of sex slaves (Numbers 31 and Deuteronomy 21), the murders of thousands of innocent people, and other crazy psychotic behavior. Who still takes this clown seriously?
I just find it hilarious when he calls our religion and prophet “false” when they’re the ONLY thing stopping me from completely tearing his text apart with his laughable idol mmaking false prophecies, misquoting the Hebrew Bible, died begging for God to save him(some real faith there) and didn’t fulfill ONE prophecy concerning the Messiah.
Also, does anyone get the feeling Ken just projects his own inadequacies and doubts about the Bible onto us because he always trys to attack us on things his theology actually teaches (infallible pope authority, rape, genocide etc) even when we don’t hold this opinion? I’m sure this is something in psychology.
“I understand your point. You are right in that we do not have the right to demand God He answer us in something. In Christianity, is ok to struggle and question, but it not ok to demand (the book of Job, etc.). It is not right to question in the sense of rebelling against God’s commandments or principles. But Islam claims almost equal status for Muhammad to God; in Surah 33:36”
To reject the messenger of God is akin to rejecting God himself. The same is true for any human prophet. It doesn’t mean equating them to God it means obeying what God has sent down. If I’ve misunderstood something or said something in error i’m sure the other muslims on the blog will correct me.
“Since we find it ridiculous that Muhammad is a prophet or anything of divine revelation coming 600 years later with a subjective claim and then anachronistically claiming to be the same as OT prophets and NT Jesus but cutting out most of NT, etc. yet retaining Jesus’ virgin birth, Islam seems crazy . . . also, all the unjust wars and treatment of women and Hadith crazy things like dipping a fly into your food or drink, etc. the Hadith about pulling out during sex before ejaculation with the sex slaves, captives of war, etc. – all of this combines together as demonstrating your religion is false; and so, yeah, I question the decisions of your false god and false prophet.”
Look Ken, it’s fine you don’t believe that Muhammad(s.a.w) is a prophet(well ok not FINE fine but hopefully you get what i’m trying to say) But the thing you objected to in you’re initial comment was not being allowed to question a prophets (and by extension God’s) ruling and authority. Now based on you’re reply you seem to understand why that argument doesn’t work. My question is why would you even use an argument that also hinders Christianity?
“On judgement day, Jesus, the God-man, will justly slay all unbelievers. 2 Thessalonians 1, Revelation chapter 19 – He will wage righteous just war.”
And this if different from the just war theory in islam how?
Also since we’re on the topic of the “godman” I have some questions that you forgot to answer that I’d like you to reply to when you have the time
since you admitted you’re past answer to my question was wrong i feel i must ask again,
A. When the divine nature uttered the “I AM” statements what was the human nature doing?
B. When you worship the “godman” is he still fully human when receiving worship?
Don’t get your hopes up he will more than likely get a case of the “busy” (though strangely will still find enough time to mock pure monotheism) and hope Vaqas eventually forgets.
What Jesus does at the end of time is different because, as God, He has the right to wage just war and He does it perfectly without any flaw or sin.
humans never execute pure just war. And Islam’s war were totally unjust and cruel to the Byzantines, N. Africa, and Persia.
A. Jesus is one unified person when He said, “I am” – but obviously that is a claim to be Yahweh ( I am that I am) and so it is only about His Divine Nature, even though He is one unified person.
B. Jesus receives worship as one Person – He is 100 % man and 100% God, but only the Divine actually gets the worship that is due to God alone.
I’m going to let Vaqas slap you around regarding the Trinity.
What I’m curious about is how Jesus(as) will allegedly do warfare differently from any other human. May you elaborate on the one whose “robe will be dipped in blood” and ordered children to be slaughtered by his hordes previously will show us how it’s done right, Ken? Like what’s the difference between him and say the Mongolians?
Hey moron, what is “just” about denying people their right to choose?
And based on your god’s track record, I don’t think he can be trusted to be “just” or “fair”. I see you avoiding the monstrous and psychopathic orders of your god pertaining to the Midianites. I ask again, you coward. What is “just” about sparing little virgin girls for sex slavery and killing everyone else?
In contrast to your evil god and his genocidal campaigns, the Islamic conquests brought freedom and fairness to oppressed minorities. Their oppressors were usually Christians. Islam freed the world from the evil grip of Christianity. Thank God for Islam.
Yeah… Kennywise is being awfully silent about Jesus(as) fighting a “just war” in its “purest form” but committing what even us “regular non-divine folk” call “war crimes” and came together collectively to ban.
What are you afraid of Kennywise? I mean, at worst, what will happen is your mangod will be tried for crimes against humanity and sentenced to life in prison.
“A. Jesus is one unified person when He said, “I am” – but obviously that is a claim to be Yahweh ( I am that I am) and so it is only about His Divine Nature, even though He is one unified person.”
so the human nature said the “I AM” statements but applied it only to the divine nature? you realize this makes it impossible to claim the “I AM” statements (if they even happened) are proofs of divinity right? for example let me give you two scenarios-
1.a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but with the intention that they are applied to the father.
2. a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but only because the father is speaking through him and is actually the one saying them.
these scenarios are in the same formula as what you are suggesting. if i’m off base please feel free to correct me.
“B. Jesus receives worship as one Person – He is 100 % man and 100% God, but only the Divine actually gets the worship that is due to God alone.”
isn’t you’re worship of only one nature of the hypostatic union separating the natures? for example if I wanted to talk to the “godman” i couldn’t speak to only one nature i’d have to speak to both natures. that’s what i feel is happening here. you worship one nature and you have to worship the other nature as well else you divide the natures and commit a heresy. can you please explain how you’re worship is not dividing the natures?
also some Christians are of the opinion that you don’t worship the natures, you worship the persons themselves.
“It needs only to be added that we as Christians worship the person Jesus Christ. We do not worship his nature(s); we worship him. We don’t worship God’s properties; we worship Him. Since Christ is a divine person, and since there is no person who is Christ and is human, there just is no room at all for idolatry.”
I’m posting this reply again not to spam but because i don’t want this particular discussion to be buried and forgotten. Please reply when you have the time.
“A. Jesus is one unified person when He said, “I am” – but obviously that is a claim to be Yahweh ( I am that I am) and so it is only about His Divine Nature, even though He is one unified person.”
so the human nature said the “I AM” statements but applied it only to the divine nature? you realize this makes it impossible to claim the “I AM” statements (if they even happened) are proofs of divinity right? for example let me give you two scenarios-
1.a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but with the intention that they are applied to the father.
2. a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but only because the father is speaking through him and is actually the one saying them.
these scenarios are in the same formula as what you are suggesting. if i’m off base please feel free to correct me.
“B. Jesus receives worship as one Person – He is 100 % man and 100% God, but only the Divine actually gets the worship that is due to God alone.”
isn’t you’re worship of only one nature of the hypostatic union separating the natures? for example if I wanted to talk to the “godman” i couldn’t speak to only one nature i’d have to speak to both natures. that’s what i feel is happening here. you worship one nature and you have to worship the other nature as well else you divide the natures and commit a heresy. can you please explain how you’re worship is not dividing the natures?
also some Christians are of the opinion that you don’t worship the natures, you worship the persons themselves.
“It needs only to be added that we as Christians worship the person Jesus Christ. We do not worship his nature(s); we worship him. We don’t worship God’s properties; we worship Him. Since Christ is a divine person, and since there is no person who is Christ and is human, there just is no room at all for idolatry.”
Alright, that’s good. You already got the message in your hands. Now is all yours.
As bro Paul previously posted, I suggest you to read the whole Surah 39 (Az-Zumar) carefully.
Put aside all the hatred and use explanation from Islamic source.
After all everything is back to you.
There is no hatred toward Muslims as people. I sincerely care about all of you, even though some here curse, insult, play bravado manipulation games, etc. and go ad hominem on me.
You have an arrogant supremacist contempt for Muslims and Islam. This comes from your feelings of superiority due to being a White American Christian of the worlds only superpower. It oozes out of every comment you make.
It has nothing to do with “white American”. It is Islam that is THE MOST ARROGANT supremacist religion ever created – force, unjust wars, submission, conquering – except for Hitler and Stalin and perhaps the Mongol invasions – Genghis Khan and Timor Lang, etc. – Islam is the classic “supremacist” philosophy.
How does objectively judging Islam as false have anything to do with “American supremacy”, etc. ?
You use ad hominem arguments.
I don’t say you are a Brit who feels guilty about all the British imperialism in history – maybe that is your inner man / soul – I don’t know and I cannot judge.
“There is no hatred toward Muslims as people. I sincerely care about all of you, even though some here curse, insult, play bravado manipulation games, etc. and go ad hominem on me.”
LOL, do us a favor and take you “sincere care” and shove it up your rear-end.
Who cares if some demonic pagan “cares” about us? You are hell-bound and you’re trying to take us with you. But it ain’t gonna happen, inshaAllah.
So whine all you want. We will continue to expose and mock your demonic lies until you repent or decide that you’ve had enough and run away and never return.
“It has nothing to do with “white American”. It is Islam that is THE MOST ARROGANT supremacist religion ever created – force, unjust wars, submission, conquering – except for Hitler and Stalin and perhaps the Mongol invasions – Genghis Khan and Timor Lang, etc. – Islam is the classic “supremacist” philosophy.”
LOL, Islam is the most racially diverse religion in the world. Islam calls people to truth, regardless of their ethnicity or color. Meanwhile, your evil religion is tribalist. Your god said that non-Jews need to wait their turn and pick up the scraps left by the Jews.
Yes, yes, we know of your pathetic apologetic excuses. You’ve been embarrassed about this many times.
Your mangod was only testing the Gentile woman, not the disciples. As soon as the Gentile woman accepted her inferiority, your mangod helped her. Your mangod was a racist.
“Thanks for exposing your own religion as powerless to overcome hate in your own heart.”
Ken i’ve seen you use this argument a number of times and i have to say it’s really a poor argument. If the behavior of a few msulims if enough to conclude that the religion of Islam is false then shouldn’t the same be said for Christianity? i.e that the behavior of certain Christian apologists is enough to conclude that the religion of Christianity is false? I hope you see how silly that is.
yes in Christianity jesus(as) is considered a prophet dumb@$$:
Yes, I never said Jesus was not a prophet. I said Jesus is not an Islamic prophet, as revelation ceased with the closing of the NT when the last book was written around 96-100 AD. (whether Revelation or Jude) 2 Peter was written in 67 AD, as was 2 Timothy. Hebrews 68 AD. Mark 45-55, Matthew 55-60; Luke 60-61 AD, Acts 62, etc.
But Jesus is more than a prophet, as the NT clearly says.
John 1:1-4, John 1:14-18, etc. 20:28
Philippians 2:5-8
Colossians chapter 1
Hebrews chapter 1
Gospel according to John – all through
Mark 1:1-2; 2:28; 14:60-64
The New Testament is written by fallible men. According to most historians it contains forgeries. Religious dogmatists such as Ken impose their ideology onto the texts, rejecting objective scholarship and historical evidence. Of all men they are most to be pitied.
Yes, fallible men but what they wrote in the 27 books of the NT is “God-breathed”, therefore infallible. Infallibility is only about the Scriptures / writings, not the men themselves.
Religious dogmatists such as Paul Williams (and all other orthodox Muslims, whether Sunni or Shiite), impose their 600 late theology and texts anachronistically back into the OT and NT (rejecting most of it) and use anti-supernatural presuppositions of modern scholars to bolster their vacuous claims. Objective scholarship and historical evidence demonstrates that Jesus Christ was and is the Messiah, Son of God, fulfiller of the prophecies and shadows of the sacrificial system of OT, and was crucified, dead, buried, under Pontius Pilate, and on the 3rd day, rose with power from the dead.
Actually, 2 Timothy 3:15 is about the OT and the next verse expands it to “all Scripture”, which includes the NT. Paul put the NT with equal authority with the Torah in 1 Tim. 5:17-18 by quoting both as Scripture. The principle is there for the other books written after 67 AD – since Jesus Al Masih promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the disciples into all the truth – John 14, 15, 16.
Wrong. The canon of the Jewish Bible had not been fixed in Jesus’ day, so it is anachronistic to say it is identical with the Protestant version you use. Furthermore, even on the erroneous assumption that Paul wrote 1Timothy he could not have had in mind all those NT books that had yet to be written – eg all the gospels etc. The quote from John is irrelevant considering I am focusing only on Paul’s statement and your total misinterpretation of it.
Yes, the canon of the Jewish Bible was fixed, as the Jews (“our Rabbis laid up the books in the temple” – see Beckwith below), Josephus (Against Apion 8, is the same as Protestant canon; as also confirmed by Jerome and 99 % by Athanasius – Athanasius left out Esther), and others have confirmed. This is treated very scholarly by Roger Beckwith’s book (see below) and several articles give us the main content.
It just shows that all early church fathers are fallible and they are not to be taken as dogmatic authorities over clear canonical Scripture. Jesus in Luke 11:51-52 (from the blood of Abel = Genesis, to the blood of Zechariah = Chronicles (the last book in the Hebrew Bible) – proves the Protestant position correct. confirms Josephus, the Rabbis, and later, what Jerome wrote. Also Cardinal Cajetan (the guy who interviewed and opposed Luther, sent by the Pope to investigate Luther, etc.) in the 1500s agreed, “all conclusions are to be reduced to the findings of Jerome on this issue”. (my paraphrase) https://christiantruth.com/articles/articles-roman-catholicism/apocryphaintroduction/apocryphapart1/
“I said Jesus is not an Islamic prophet, as revelation ceased with the closing of the NT when the last book was written around 96-100”
First off, this wouldn’t refute him not being an “Islamic prophet” dumb@$$. But please allow me to teach you your religion again. Prophecy has NOT ceased according to Christianity:
3And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will PROPHESY for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
4These witnesses are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.a 5If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed. 6These witnesses have power to shut the sky so that no rain will fall during the days of their PROPHECY, and power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish.
7When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will wage war with them, and will overpower and kill them. 8Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified. 9For three and a half days all peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will view their bodies and will not permit them to be laid in a tomb. 10And those who dwell on the earth will gloat over them, and will celebrate and send each other gifts, because these two PROPHETS had tormented them. (Revelations 11:3-10)
I’m sorry two what? And just so you don’t go into whatever stupid ramble your planning word used in Greek is προφήτης (prophétés) which is used whenever quoting things like “thus spoke the prophet”
Next no one cares what your later heretical authors getting their mouths torn open in Hell state. The church of Jerusalem clearly states the Islamic position prophet, messiah not divine so there is no anarchism.
The two witnesses of Revelation 11 are probably symbols of the 2 good churches of Revelation chapters 2-3 and have mostly relevance to the first century. (the partial preterism interpretation) = written about around 68 AD and fulfilled partially in 70 AD.
Jude 3 – “the faith that was once for all time delivered to the saints”
Hebrews 1:1-3 – God has spoken finally and decisively through His Son and apostles in these last days.
Revelation 22:18 – specifically about that book, but includes the NT by principle
He joined the Montanists the last few years of his life, but his reasons were not because of prophecy, but because of the asceticism and disciplines of godliness that he admired – but at the very end he also left them, being disillusioned, and formed his own group, that some early church historians and experts on Tertullian call, “the Tertullianists”.
Montanism, known by its adherents as the New Prophecy, was an early Christian movement of the late 2nd century, later referred to by the name of its founder, Montanus.
Montanism held similar views about the basic tenets of Christian doctrine to those of the wider Christian Church, but it was labelled a heresy by some for its belief in new prophetic revelations. The prophetic movement called for a reliance on the spontaneity of the Holy Spirit and a more conservative personal ethic. Parallels have been drawn between Montanism and modern-day movements such as Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement. source Wiki
When Jesus promised His disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all the Truth, in John 14 and 16, the promise was manifested and fulfilled by written revelation being completed and then ceased, but we have everything we need in the written Scriptures.
Pure evangelical spin – the texts do not say that. Tertullian refutes you. (I assume you have enough knowledge of Patristics to know what I am referring to Ken).
Sooooo… in your mind a letter to a church telling it to act right is something that should be written and declared Scripture but not a “modern” revelation of God to two new prophets? Alright…
Jude 3 counters nothing
Hebrews actually hurts you, not helps lol. First off it does NOT say, apostles:
1On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son,a whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.b
That means the writers of NT are NOT receiving revelation so their words mean nothing as the anonymous author of Hebrews did not indicate they were receiving revelation.
Next this “inspired” author quotes Psalm 2:7 which refutes your beliefs:
I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; TODAY I have become your father.
The Son (who is obviously David(as) in context but let’s run with it) TODAY become the Son therefore the Son is created and thus not God.
You cannot extend Revelation to the entire NT as it is
1. A separate text
2. Almost didn’t even make it in
3. Shows th amount of forgeries going around that the author had to pplace the “warning” to not mess with it.
And you don’t know the church of Jerusalem? I’ll keep it simple 1st century Christians who were led by James and the Disciples who Jesus(as) actually preached to didn’t believe in your paganism and declared Paul a heretic. Let that sink in…
This is a cult – a false religion – the leftovers from the Worldwide Church of God – founded by Herbert Armstrong – a heretical group that focuses on end time events, Saturday worship, forbidding celebrations of birthdays and Christmas, and is anti-Trinitarian, etc.
“read your long diatribes” = your way of ignoring an intellectual argument and laziness.
The quotes from Timothy Winter, Jonathan Brown at your old blogs confirm the root problems with Islamic tendencies to cover up their sins rather than confess them and expose them.
“Whatever you cover, God will uncover; What you uncover, God will cover.”
The only cure is full confession of sinfulness and turning to Christ in faith.
Acts 3:19 – repent and return
Acts 17:29-31
“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
Mark 1:15 – repent and believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ
no you don’t since Mark recorded what Jesus said and did and part of the gospel is faith in His atonement death on the cross.
Mark 10:45
Mark 14:24
and faith in who Jesus really is:
Mark 14:60-64
eternal Son of God – Psalm 2:1-12
Son of Man of Daniel 7:13-14
Messiah who sits at right hand of Yahweh
Psalm 110:1
Your diatribe just shows the stupidity of Christianity.
“The quotes from Timothy Winter, Jonathan Brown at your old blogs confirm the root problems with Islamic tendencies to cover up their sins rather than confess them and expose them.”
There is nothing about “covering up” but rather about confessing the sin to Allah (swt) and atoning for it. You are an idiot Kennywise. You should confess to that. That is your sin. 🙂
From my article above, which got info from Paul Williams’ old blogs.
The Prophet (pbuh) said, “Whoever does indecency, let him veil his acts with the veiling of God and let him make repentance.” He also said, “Whoever comes to our faces and admits them, then we will punish them.” (Hamza Yusuf)
The emphasis in the above is on the one act of sin. Islam emphasizes external sins – like adultery, rather than dealing with the root (s) of sin, the sinful nature within, and the evil thoughts and motives that spring from that. And since adultery is punishable by death in Islam, then the result is that there is lots of hiding and covering up and hypocrisy. As Jonathan Brown said in a lecture (I will have to track it down; as it was at Paul Williams old site) – “the Islamic Caliphs didn’t care what you did in private” (from memory)
I asked Paul Williams for the Hadith reference for this, and he never gave it. ”
Shows that same tendency to not expose the sins of the other Jihadist Muslims.
That is the same attitude that kept those other Muslims you criticized for not speaking out against the violent extremists / Jihadists. This why Islam “overs up” sin and is inferior to Christianity. If you read the entire article, you can see.
Not exposing the sins of another person doesn’t mean you don’t advise the person to stop. Islam is superior to Christianity because it holds every person responsible for their own sins. There is no “transfer” and no one else is held responsible.
Not letting sin run rampant in society does not mean you don’t also do other things. This is your red herring and generally being retarded when it comes to Islam’s doctrines.
Ken Temple, sorry off topics but since you are here I have a question for you. What is your opinion / explanation about Matthew 7:21-23:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who do what my Father in heaven wants will enter. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord! Lord! Didn’t we prophesy in your name? Didn’t we drive out demons in your name? Didn’t we do many miracles in your name?’ 23 Then I will tell them clearly, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who do evil!’
In my opinion no one does that but only Christians do everything in the name of Jesus and also it seems Jesus denies that he is God in judgment day .
I’m just curious and I want to know from Christian perspective.
ISIS, Boko Haram and other terrorist organizations that using Islam for their action are not Islamic and against Islamic teaching. Therefore we are as Muslim must stand up in the first line to speak up against them.
Exactly!
Very good Paul. I commend you on this.
It seems to me that all of this problem with those Muslims you have pointed out – and also others on other issues – namely your frustration with other Muslims also on other issues (not terrorism or violence, but other things – hypocrisy ?, control behind the scenes?, hiding or suppressing videos, etc. ?) (your comments and problems with Adnan Rashid and Abdullah and MDI, etc. – and your comments about Metanoia (Repentance) Taubeh, توبه (we have that in Farsi, coming from the Arabic) 😉
all of this shows that the Bible and Christianity is right about mankind in his/her heart / soul / inner person – as C. S. Lewis wrote – “The Christians are right – the root of sin is pride or arrogance or self-conceit” – Mere Christianity, “The Great Sin” – read the whole chapter – everyone. Original sin and corruption in the heart / soul / mind – selfishness, pride, arrogance, etc.
The Bible is correct is about the corruption of the heart of humans.
Genesis 6:5
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Mark 7:20-23
And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride [arrogance, conceit, self-centered selfishness] and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
Only in the Gospel of Jesus Christ [the full message of the New Testament] can the sickness and evil of the heart of man be changed.
John 3:1-21
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Mark 1:15 – repent and believe the gospel
Mark 10:45 & Mark 14:24 – must trust in the final atoning sacrifice / ransom for sin – even the Qur’an unwittingly points to this in Surah 37:107
Ken Temple, maybe you forget, Jesus (pbuh) is one of the Islamic prophet. We are following Jesus’s teaching and not only that we are following all of the prophet’s teaching from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon all of them).
All of the prophet’s teaching came from one source, Allah. Now, we have the last and final teaching from Allah that was revealed to Muhammad (pbuh) as the last messenger of Allah, its called Quran which is valid forever until the judgement day.
The duty of Muslim is just to follow Quran and Hadits and pass these messages to others. It’s not our duty to convert someone to become a Muslim.
And we are not worried about Quran because Allah himself would take care of it.
Jesus (pbuh) is one of the Islamic prophet.
This is an anachronistic claim that has no basis in historical fact. The Qur’anic Jesus never existed; it is 600 year late construction out of Muhammad’s mind (or with others who compiled things together). The Qur’an shows no knowledge of the previous Scriptures – mostly the good aspects that it got were within the apocryphal gospels and heretical sects and Jewish Midrash (mixture of exaggerations from OT).
We are following Jesus’s teaching . . .
You claim to; but you don’t really. Ignoring the teachings of the NT is ignoring the true Injeel.
. . . and not only that we are following all of the prophet’s teaching from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon all of them).
Even that is wrong – because there is a lot that is ignored from the OT (Tanakh), with claims that the Jews lied and changed their Scriptures.
@ Ken
I have to ask how do you get around being such a retard? To begin let me teach you about your theology, yes in Christianity jesus(as) is considered a prophet dumb@$$:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1335.cfm
Man, that’s embarrassing.
Next the Quran actually quotes previous Scriptures so once again you’ve shown not only not to know you’re religion but others as well.
The NT is NOT the Gospel again even in your theology:
And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people. (Matthew 4:23 )
Was he(as) reading Timothy, Romans, Galatians etc? No.
Oh look at that your fellow Trinitarians agree with me, lol:
http://www.truegospel.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/basics.tour/ID/2/What-Did-Jesus-Preach.htm
You claim what we say about Jesus(as) didn’t exist but the Jewish Christians disagree with you and funny enough agree with us.
Finally, please stop talking about politics as you have been shown time and time again on this blog to be retarded concerning the subject. (Again to show your ignorance not arguing with God does not extend to the Caliph that was you all who gave the Pope that authority. Also I find it funny you always like to take credit for the West (which is secular btw) but never acknowledge when it does wrong. Why is that I wonder?)
What you did Paul was point out hypocrisy – and it seems that in order to defend Islam in the west, many Muslims don’t know how to respond to your asking questions and pointing out hypocrisy.
Surah 5:101(don’t ask too many questions – it will distress and upset and hurt you) and 33:36 (cannot question Muhammad’s decision in a matter) created environment in Islam against asking too many questions.
Many Muslims have told me this.
It would be dangerous to allow some kind of authority like a Caliphate, etc. anymore, because of this problem of not questioning Islam.
The leaders of Iran (Ayatollah Khomeini and others) (even though Shiite, the same mentality is all over Muslim world) have said, “it is ok to lie and do other sins in order to defend Islam” (there are several YouTube videos documenting this) – that attitude is prevalent among Muslim leaders. The examples of other dictators all over middle east, etc. is the same basic thing – Saudi, Hafez Al Assad and Bashir Al Assad, Mobarak in Egypt, Saddam Hussein, etc.
But the west has centuries long development of accountability systems – there are checks and balances (beginning with Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, US Constitution, separation of powers, European Parliamentary systems, 3 branches of government in US that provide checks and balances and also freedom of religion and freedom of the press to expose secrets and lies when government is complicit and guilty.) built in after centuries of learning that the heart of man (humans) is evil and there must be accountability.
Ken Temple, what do you know about surah 5:101 and 33:36?
Surah 5:101 – don’t ask too many questions – it will distress and upset and hurt you.
and 33:36 -cannot question Muhammad’s decision in a matter.
= Dictatorship, Al Jabbar (the one who forces, the tryant), Kheir ol Makareen (Allah is the very best deceiver / trickster / schemer).
@ Kennywise
You really thought you had something with this point which is why you had to repeat it twice right? Lol, since we’re teaching Arabic:
كافر Kaffir anyone who worships Jesus(as) and calls him a God or does verbal gymnastics to try and turn him into one. You
فاسق Fasiq Wicked one. You
فاجر Faajir Sinner who tears opens their natural disposition. You
PERFECT.
Don’t forget The West and European also that legalized LGBT and weed.
The west, on those issues, is In violation of Christian principles over the last 60 years.
@Ken Temple
“Surah 5:101 – don’t ask too many questions – it will distress and upset and hurt you.
and 33:36 -cannot question Muhammad’s decision in a matter.”
And when you’re version of the second coming of Christ occurs will the “godman” allow questions the likes of which i ask you ken? Will the “godman” allow people to question his decisions on matters? Will he allow freedom of religion?
“Dictatorship, Al Jabbar (the one who forces, the tryant), Kheir ol Makareen (Allah is the very best deceiver / trickster / schemer)”
you’ve already been responded to on these points multiple times.
I have to ask, do you honesty think still spewing this rhetoric will convert us ken? Because I got to tell you at least for the people on this blog it’s not working.
Only the Holy Spirit behind the scenes, invisibly working in the heart with God using questioning and thinking about the content of the words, etc. spoken in evangelism and apologetics, only God the invisible can convert a heart.
2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
It is not my job or any other Christians job to convert people. Our job is to speak the truth, defend the truth, in a proper manner; and we pray for God to work in hearts.
The responses to those issues do not make the questions or the problems in Islam go away. The responses have been inadequate.
@Ken Temple
“The responses have been inadequate.”
I disagree. Besides the same can certainly be said of you ken. Case in point you ignored the first half of my reply pointing out you’re hypocrisy. So i’ll just ask it again, when you’re version of the second coming of Christ occurs will the “godman” allow questions the likes of which i ask you ken? Will the “godman” allow people to question his decisions on matters? Will he allow freedom of religion?
I understand your point. You are right in that we do not have the right to demand God He answer us in something. In Christianity, is ok to struggle and question, but it not ok to demand (the book of Job, etc.). It is not right to question in the sense of rebelling against God’s commandments or principles. But Islam claims almost equal status for Muhammad to God; in Surah 33:36
It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.”
Since we find it ridiculous that Muhammad is a prophet or anything of divine revelation coming 600 years later with a subjective claim and then anachronistically claiming to be the same as OT prophets and NT Jesus but cutting out most of NT, etc. yet retaining Jesus’ virgin birth, Islam seems crazy . . . also, all the unjust wars and treatment of women and Hadith crazy things like dipping a fly into your food or drink, etc. the Hadith about pulling out during sex before ejaculation with the sex slaves, captives of war, etc. – all of this combines together as demonstrating your religion is false; and so, yeah, I question the decisions of your false god and false prophet.
On judgement day, Jesus, the God-man, will justly slay all unbelievers. 2 Thessalonians 1, Revelation chapter 19 – He will wage righteous just war.
“But Islam claims almost equal status for Muhammad to God; in Surah 33:36”
Another lie, not even worth refuting.
“On judgement day, Jesus, the God-man, will justly slay all unbelievers. 2 Thessalonians 1, Revelation chapter 19 – He will wage righteous just war.”
Another example of why Kennywise is a clown who is fully deserving of all the mockery he gets.
Notice how “slaying all unbelievers” simply for exercising their right to choose is now called a “just war” by this demonic clown.
Meanwhile, his mangod is the same one who also allowed the taking of sex slaves (Numbers 31 and Deuteronomy 21), the murders of thousands of innocent people, and other crazy psychotic behavior. Who still takes this clown seriously?
Hey Kennywise, you dancing monkey clown, what was “just” about killing all the Midianites and only sparing the young virgin girls?
@ QB
I just find it hilarious when he calls our religion and prophet “false” when they’re the ONLY thing stopping me from completely tearing his text apart with his laughable idol mmaking false prophecies, misquoting the Hebrew Bible, died begging for God to save him(some real faith there) and didn’t fulfill ONE prophecy concerning the Messiah.
@ QB
Also, does anyone get the feeling Ken just projects his own inadequacies and doubts about the Bible onto us because he always trys to attack us on things his theology actually teaches (infallible pope authority, rape, genocide etc) even when we don’t hold this opinion? I’m sure this is something in psychology.
https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2020/02/14/on-numbers-31-christian-compares-yahweh-to-a-mafia-boss/
Christians showing us how “loving” and “just” their god is.
@Ken Temple
“I understand your point. You are right in that we do not have the right to demand God He answer us in something. In Christianity, is ok to struggle and question, but it not ok to demand (the book of Job, etc.). It is not right to question in the sense of rebelling against God’s commandments or principles. But Islam claims almost equal status for Muhammad to God; in Surah 33:36”
To reject the messenger of God is akin to rejecting God himself. The same is true for any human prophet. It doesn’t mean equating them to God it means obeying what God has sent down. If I’ve misunderstood something or said something in error i’m sure the other muslims on the blog will correct me.
“Since we find it ridiculous that Muhammad is a prophet or anything of divine revelation coming 600 years later with a subjective claim and then anachronistically claiming to be the same as OT prophets and NT Jesus but cutting out most of NT, etc. yet retaining Jesus’ virgin birth, Islam seems crazy . . . also, all the unjust wars and treatment of women and Hadith crazy things like dipping a fly into your food or drink, etc. the Hadith about pulling out during sex before ejaculation with the sex slaves, captives of war, etc. – all of this combines together as demonstrating your religion is false; and so, yeah, I question the decisions of your false god and false prophet.”
Look Ken, it’s fine you don’t believe that Muhammad(s.a.w) is a prophet(well ok not FINE fine but hopefully you get what i’m trying to say) But the thing you objected to in you’re initial comment was not being allowed to question a prophets (and by extension God’s) ruling and authority. Now based on you’re reply you seem to understand why that argument doesn’t work. My question is why would you even use an argument that also hinders Christianity?
“On judgement day, Jesus, the God-man, will justly slay all unbelievers. 2 Thessalonians 1, Revelation chapter 19 – He will wage righteous just war.”
And this if different from the just war theory in islam how?
Also since we’re on the topic of the “godman” I have some questions that you forgot to answer that I’d like you to reply to when you have the time
since you admitted you’re past answer to my question was wrong i feel i must ask again,
A. When the divine nature uttered the “I AM” statements what was the human nature doing?
B. When you worship the “godman” is he still fully human when receiving worship?
Now don’t you run away Kennywise. We are all looking forward to your bumbling, clumsy answers to Vaqas’ excellent questions.
@ QB
Don’t get your hopes up he will more than likely get a case of the “busy” (though strangely will still find enough time to mock pure monotheism) and hope Vaqas eventually forgets.
What Jesus does at the end of time is different because, as God, He has the right to wage just war and He does it perfectly without any flaw or sin.
humans never execute pure just war. And Islam’s war were totally unjust and cruel to the Byzantines, N. Africa, and Persia.
A. Jesus is one unified person when He said, “I am” – but obviously that is a claim to be Yahweh ( I am that I am) and so it is only about His Divine Nature, even though He is one unified person.
B. Jesus receives worship as one Person – He is 100 % man and 100% God, but only the Divine actually gets the worship that is due to God alone.
“And Islam’s war were totally unjust and cruel to the Byzantines, N. Africa, and Persia.”
Utter unhistorical rubbish. Islam brought divine justice to corrupt and oppressive Christian regimes that persecuted Jews and minority Christians.
See the evidence by a historian who (unlike you) actually knows what he is talking about: https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/so-what-did-the-muslims-do-for-the-jews-1.33597
@ Kennywwise
I’m going to let Vaqas slap you around regarding the Trinity.
What I’m curious about is how Jesus(as) will allegedly do warfare differently from any other human. May you elaborate on the one whose “robe will be dipped in blood” and ordered children to be slaughtered by his hordes previously will show us how it’s done right, Ken? Like what’s the difference between him and say the Mongolians?
Don’t forget that Jesus ordered the targeted kiling of women, children, babies and animals in 1 Samuel 15. Horrific!
Hey moron, what is “just” about denying people their right to choose?
And based on your god’s track record, I don’t think he can be trusted to be “just” or “fair”. I see you avoiding the monstrous and psychopathic orders of your god pertaining to the Midianites. I ask again, you coward. What is “just” about sparing little virgin girls for sex slavery and killing everyone else?
In contrast to your evil god and his genocidal campaigns, the Islamic conquests brought freedom and fairness to oppressed minorities. Their oppressors were usually Christians. Islam freed the world from the evil grip of Christianity. Thank God for Islam.
@ QB
Yeah… Kennywise is being awfully silent about Jesus(as) fighting a “just war” in its “purest form” but committing what even us “regular non-divine folk” call “war crimes” and came together collectively to ban.
1 Samuel 15 – the god of genocide
What are you afraid of Kennywise? I mean, at worst, what will happen is your mangod will be tried for crimes against humanity and sentenced to life in prison.
😱😱😱
@Ken Temple
“A. Jesus is one unified person when He said, “I am” – but obviously that is a claim to be Yahweh ( I am that I am) and so it is only about His Divine Nature, even though He is one unified person.”
so the human nature said the “I AM” statements but applied it only to the divine nature? you realize this makes it impossible to claim the “I AM” statements (if they even happened) are proofs of divinity right? for example let me give you two scenarios-
1.a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but with the intention that they are applied to the father.
2. a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but only because the father is speaking through him and is actually the one saying them.
these scenarios are in the same formula as what you are suggesting. if i’m off base please feel free to correct me.
“B. Jesus receives worship as one Person – He is 100 % man and 100% God, but only the Divine actually gets the worship that is due to God alone.”
isn’t you’re worship of only one nature of the hypostatic union separating the natures? for example if I wanted to talk to the “godman” i couldn’t speak to only one nature i’d have to speak to both natures. that’s what i feel is happening here. you worship one nature and you have to worship the other nature as well else you divide the natures and commit a heresy. can you please explain how you’re worship is not dividing the natures?
also some Christians are of the opinion that you don’t worship the natures, you worship the persons themselves.
such as here https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-blog/2015/is-worship-of-jesus-idolatry
“It needs only to be added that we as Christians worship the person Jesus Christ. We do not worship his nature(s); we worship him. We don’t worship God’s properties; we worship Him. Since Christ is a divine person, and since there is no person who is Christ and is human, there just is no room at all for idolatry.”
you’re thoughts on that Ken?
@Ken Temple
I’m posting this reply again not to spam but because i don’t want this particular discussion to be buried and forgotten. Please reply when you have the time.
“A. Jesus is one unified person when He said, “I am” – but obviously that is a claim to be Yahweh ( I am that I am) and so it is only about His Divine Nature, even though He is one unified person.”
so the human nature said the “I AM” statements but applied it only to the divine nature? you realize this makes it impossible to claim the “I AM” statements (if they even happened) are proofs of divinity right? for example let me give you two scenarios-
1.a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but with the intention that they are applied to the father.
2. a human Jesus(a.s) says the “I AM” statements but only because the father is speaking through him and is actually the one saying them.
these scenarios are in the same formula as what you are suggesting. if i’m off base please feel free to correct me.
“B. Jesus receives worship as one Person – He is 100 % man and 100% God, but only the Divine actually gets the worship that is due to God alone.”
isn’t you’re worship of only one nature of the hypostatic union separating the natures? for example if I wanted to talk to the “godman” i couldn’t speak to only one nature i’d have to speak to both natures. that’s what i feel is happening here. you worship one nature and you have to worship the other nature as well else you divide the natures and commit a heresy. can you please explain how you’re worship is not dividing the natures?
also some Christians are of the opinion that you don’t worship the natures, you worship the persons themselves.
such as here https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-blog/2015/is-worship-of-jesus-idolatry
“It needs only to be added that we as Christians worship the person Jesus Christ. We do not worship his nature(s); we worship him. We don’t worship God’s properties; we worship Him. Since Christ is a divine person, and since there is no person who is Christ and is human, there just is no room at all for idolatry.”
you’re thoughts on that Ken?
Had a pint too much for comfort?
way too much
Ken Temple, do you have Quran? Have you read Quran cover to cover or how far have you read Quran?
He has read it all in Persian because Muslims speak Persian and the Koran is written in Persian.
Oops!
It is a translation
Yes, I have several versions in English and I read it all the way through the first time in 1986 and have continued to study it.
I also have several in Arabic – English and I have one in Arabic – Farsi.
I can click on the Farsi at Sahih International and see Arabic, several in English and Farsi / Persian.
Alright, that’s good. You already got the message in your hands. Now is all yours.
As bro Paul previously posted, I suggest you to read the whole Surah 39 (Az-Zumar) carefully.
Put aside all the hatred and use explanation from Islamic source.
After all everything is back to you.
There is no hatred toward Muslims as people. I sincerely care about all of you, even though some here curse, insult, play bravado manipulation games, etc. and go ad hominem on me.
You have an arrogant supremacist contempt for Muslims and Islam. This comes from your feelings of superiority due to being a White American Christian of the worlds only superpower. It oozes out of every comment you make.
It has nothing to do with “white American”. It is Islam that is THE MOST ARROGANT supremacist religion ever created – force, unjust wars, submission, conquering – except for Hitler and Stalin and perhaps the Mongol invasions – Genghis Khan and Timor Lang, etc. – Islam is the classic “supremacist” philosophy.
Thank you for proving my point Ken. An American supremacist to the last. It is your real religion.
How does objectively judging Islam as false have anything to do with “American supremacy”, etc. ?
You use ad hominem arguments.
I don’t say you are a Brit who feels guilty about all the British imperialism in history – maybe that is your inner man / soul – I don’t know and I cannot judge.
Says a man who voted for Donald Trump!
“There is no hatred toward Muslims as people. I sincerely care about all of you, even though some here curse, insult, play bravado manipulation games, etc. and go ad hominem on me.”
LOL, do us a favor and take you “sincere care” and shove it up your rear-end.
Who cares if some demonic pagan “cares” about us? You are hell-bound and you’re trying to take us with you. But it ain’t gonna happen, inshaAllah.
So whine all you want. We will continue to expose and mock your demonic lies until you repent or decide that you’ve had enough and run away and never return.
Thanks for exposing your own religion as powerless to overcome hate in your own heart.
“Thanks for exposing your own religion as powerless to overcome hate in your own heart.”
Thanks for exposing your own religion as the religion of liars and cheap words. 😉
“It has nothing to do with “white American”. It is Islam that is THE MOST ARROGANT supremacist religion ever created – force, unjust wars, submission, conquering – except for Hitler and Stalin and perhaps the Mongol invasions – Genghis Khan and Timor Lang, etc. – Islam is the classic “supremacist” philosophy.”
LOL, Islam is the most racially diverse religion in the world. Islam calls people to truth, regardless of their ethnicity or color. Meanwhile, your evil religion is tribalist. Your god said that non-Jews need to wait their turn and pick up the scraps left by the Jews.
Jesus was testing the Jewish disciples and their human bias / racism – which needed to be rebuked. I already refuted you on this many times.
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/was-jesus-cruel-to-the-canaanite-woman-mark-724-30-matthew-1521-28/
Yes, yes, we know of your pathetic apologetic excuses. You’ve been embarrassed about this many times.
Your mangod was only testing the Gentile woman, not the disciples. As soon as the Gentile woman accepted her inferiority, your mangod helped her. Your mangod was a racist.
@Ken Temple
“Thanks for exposing your own religion as powerless to overcome hate in your own heart.”
Ken i’ve seen you use this argument a number of times and i have to say it’s really a poor argument. If the behavior of a few msulims if enough to conclude that the religion of Islam is false then shouldn’t the same be said for Christianity? i.e that the behavior of certain Christian apologists is enough to conclude that the religion of Christianity is false? I hope you see how silly that is.
@ Ken
Lol were the supremacist but your religion LITERALLY had a decree dividing the Earth for itself. There goes that projection again.
Stewjo004:
yes in Christianity jesus(as) is considered a prophet dumb@$$:
Yes, I never said Jesus was not a prophet. I said Jesus is not an Islamic prophet, as revelation ceased with the closing of the NT when the last book was written around 96-100 AD. (whether Revelation or Jude) 2 Peter was written in 67 AD, as was 2 Timothy. Hebrews 68 AD. Mark 45-55, Matthew 55-60; Luke 60-61 AD, Acts 62, etc.
But Jesus is more than a prophet, as the NT clearly says.
John 1:1-4, John 1:14-18, etc. 20:28
Philippians 2:5-8
Colossians chapter 1
Hebrews chapter 1
Gospel according to John – all through
Mark 1:1-2; 2:28; 14:60-64
The New Testament is written by fallible men. According to most historians it contains forgeries. Religious dogmatists such as Ken impose their ideology onto the texts, rejecting objective scholarship and historical evidence. Of all men they are most to be pitied.
Yes, fallible men but what they wrote in the 27 books of the NT is “God-breathed”, therefore infallible. Infallibility is only about the Scriptures / writings, not the men themselves.
Religious dogmatists such as Paul Williams (and all other orthodox Muslims, whether Sunni or Shiite), impose their 600 late theology and texts anachronistically back into the OT and NT (rejecting most of it) and use anti-supernatural presuppositions of modern scholars to bolster their vacuous claims. Objective scholarship and historical evidence demonstrates that Jesus Christ was and is the Messiah, Son of God, fulfiller of the prophecies and shadows of the sacrificial system of OT, and was crucified, dead, buried, under Pontius Pilate, and on the 3rd day, rose with power from the dead.
Nowhere in the Bible does is even claim that the New Testament is ‘God breathed’ – it’s just a figment if your imagination!
Actually, 2 Timothy 3:15 is about the OT and the next verse expands it to “all Scripture”, which includes the NT. Paul put the NT with equal authority with the Torah in 1 Tim. 5:17-18 by quoting both as Scripture. The principle is there for the other books written after 67 AD – since Jesus Al Masih promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the disciples into all the truth – John 14, 15, 16.
Wrong. The canon of the Jewish Bible had not been fixed in Jesus’ day, so it is anachronistic to say it is identical with the Protestant version you use. Furthermore, even on the erroneous assumption that Paul wrote 1Timothy he could not have had in mind all those NT books that had yet to be written – eg all the gospels etc. The quote from John is irrelevant considering I am focusing only on Paul’s statement and your total misinterpretation of it.
Yes, the canon of the Jewish Bible was fixed, as the Jews (“our Rabbis laid up the books in the temple” – see Beckwith below), Josephus (Against Apion 8, is the same as Protestant canon; as also confirmed by Jerome and 99 % by Athanasius – Athanasius left out Esther), and others have confirmed. This is treated very scholarly by Roger Beckwith’s book (see below) and several articles give us the main content.
https://www.amazon.com/Old-Testament-Canon-New-Church/dp/1606082493
How can Athanasius’s canon be the same as the Protestant canon when he left our Esther? Do you even understand what your are writing??
It just shows that all early church fathers are fallible and they are not to be taken as dogmatic authorities over clear canonical Scripture. Jesus in Luke 11:51-52 (from the blood of Abel = Genesis, to the blood of Zechariah = Chronicles (the last book in the Hebrew Bible) – proves the Protestant position correct. confirms Josephus, the Rabbis, and later, what Jerome wrote. Also Cardinal Cajetan (the guy who interviewed and opposed Luther, sent by the Pope to investigate Luther, etc.) in the 1500s agreed, “all conclusions are to be reduced to the findings of Jerome on this issue”. (my paraphrase)
https://christiantruth.com/articles/articles-roman-catholicism/apocryphaintroduction/apocryphapart1/
There were a number of different canons used by the Jews at the time of Jesus. Don’t you know this?
You apparently have not read deeply enough. Read Webster’s articles first, then go deeper with Beckwith.
I have studied this subject academically and you are talking utter baloney Ken. How embarrassing!
if you have not read Webster or Roger Beckwith on this issue, then you don’t know what you are talking about.
I have. So don’t lie.
@ Ken
“I said Jesus is not an Islamic prophet, as revelation ceased with the closing of the NT when the last book was written around 96-100”
First off, this wouldn’t refute him not being an “Islamic prophet” dumb@$$. But please allow me to teach you your religion again. Prophecy has NOT ceased according to Christianity:
3And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will PROPHESY for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
4These witnesses are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.a 5If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed. 6These witnesses have power to shut the sky so that no rain will fall during the days of their PROPHECY, and power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish.
7When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will wage war with them, and will overpower and kill them. 8Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified. 9For three and a half days all peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will view their bodies and will not permit them to be laid in a tomb. 10And those who dwell on the earth will gloat over them, and will celebrate and send each other gifts, because these two PROPHETS had tormented them. (Revelations 11:3-10)
I’m sorry two what? And just so you don’t go into whatever stupid ramble your planning word used in Greek is προφήτης (prophétés) which is used whenever quoting things like “thus spoke the prophet”
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4396.htm
Next no one cares what your later heretical authors getting their mouths torn open in Hell state. The church of Jerusalem clearly states the Islamic position prophet, messiah not divine so there is no anarchism.
Boom!
written prophesy ceased.
The two witnesses of Revelation 11 are probably symbols of the 2 good churches of Revelation chapters 2-3 and have mostly relevance to the first century. (the partial preterism interpretation) = written about around 68 AD and fulfilled partially in 70 AD.
“The church of Jerusalem” = ?
“written prophesy ceased.” Says who??
Jude 3 – “the faith that was once for all time delivered to the saints”
Hebrews 1:1-3 – God has spoken finally and decisively through His Son and apostles in these last days.
Revelation 22:18 – specifically about that book, but includes the NT by principle
None of those passages say “written prophesy ceased”.
And yet that is what they mean; and what the early church understood.
Wrong. Just ask Tertullian.
He joined the Montanists the last few years of his life, but his reasons were not because of prophecy, but because of the asceticism and disciplines of godliness that he admired – but at the very end he also left them, being disillusioned, and formed his own group, that some early church historians and experts on Tertullian call, “the Tertullianists”.
Tertullian believed in this:
Montanism, known by its adherents as the New Prophecy, was an early Christian movement of the late 2nd century, later referred to by the name of its founder, Montanus.
Montanism held similar views about the basic tenets of Christian doctrine to those of the wider Christian Church, but it was labelled a heresy by some for its belief in new prophetic revelations. The prophetic movement called for a reliance on the spontaneity of the Holy Spirit and a more conservative personal ethic. Parallels have been drawn between Montanism and modern-day movements such as Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement. source Wiki
When Jesus promised His disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all the Truth, in John 14 and 16, the promise was manifested and fulfilled by written revelation being completed and then ceased, but we have everything we need in the written Scriptures.
Pure evangelical spin – the texts do not say that. Tertullian refutes you. (I assume you have enough knowledge of Patristics to know what I am referring to Ken).
“written prophesy ceased.”
LOL, is this guy for real?
Sadly, yes.
@ Ken
Sooooo… in your mind a letter to a church telling it to act right is something that should be written and declared Scripture but not a “modern” revelation of God to two new prophets? Alright…
Jude 3 counters nothing
Hebrews actually hurts you, not helps lol. First off it does NOT say, apostles:
1On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son,a whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.b
https://biblehub.com/bsb/hebrews/1.htm#fn
That means the writers of NT are NOT receiving revelation so their words mean nothing as the anonymous author of Hebrews did not indicate they were receiving revelation.
Next this “inspired” author quotes Psalm 2:7 which refutes your beliefs:
I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; TODAY I have become your father.
The Son (who is obviously David(as) in context but let’s run with it) TODAY become the Son therefore the Son is created and thus not God.
You cannot extend Revelation to the entire NT as it is
1. A separate text
2. Almost didn’t even make it in
3. Shows th amount of forgeries going around that the author had to pplace the “warning” to not mess with it.
And you don’t know the church of Jerusalem? I’ll keep it simple 1st century Christians who were led by James and the Disciples who Jesus(as) actually preached to didn’t believe in your paganism and declared Paul a heretic. Let that sink in…
BOOM!
Stewjo004 –
Oh look at that your fellow Trinitarians agree with me, lol:
LOL – they confess they are non-Trinitarian, therefore, they are a heretical cult and false religion.
Just look under the “about”.
Following the links of “the Church of the Great God – under “about” and “non-Trinitarian” – of what Stewjo linked to.
“https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/About.history
Ahah !!
This is a cult – a false religion – the leftovers from the Worldwide Church of God – founded by Herbert Armstrong – a heretical group that focuses on end time events, Saturday worship, forbidding celebrations of birthdays and Christmas, and is anti-Trinitarian, etc.
@ Ken
Good catch I read too fast and thought it said trinitarian. Either way closer to the truth then your false religion and cult.
Overall, what Paul Williams pointed out is the same root of this problem:
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/the-cultural-tendency-of-the-muslim-world-to-cover-up-their-sins/
Ken you flatter yourself if you think we’re actually going to read your long diatribes. We hear quite enough from you on this blog.
“read your long diatribes” = your way of ignoring an intellectual argument and laziness.
The quotes from Timothy Winter, Jonathan Brown at your old blogs confirm the root problems with Islamic tendencies to cover up their sins rather than confess them and expose them.
“Whatever you cover, God will uncover; What you uncover, God will cover.”
The only cure is full confession of sinfulness and turning to Christ in faith.
Acts 3:19 – repent and return
Acts 17:29-31
“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
Mark 1:15 – repent and believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ
“repent and believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ” – I do, wholeheartedly.
no you don’t since Mark recorded what Jesus said and did and part of the gospel is faith in His atonement death on the cross.
Mark 10:45
Mark 14:24
and faith in who Jesus really is:
Mark 14:60-64
eternal Son of God – Psalm 2:1-12
Son of Man of Daniel 7:13-14
Messiah who sits at right hand of Yahweh
Psalm 110:1
your naive trust in ancient texts what are unreliable is touching
Your diatribe just shows the stupidity of Christianity.
“The quotes from Timothy Winter, Jonathan Brown at your old blogs confirm the root problems with Islamic tendencies to cover up their sins rather than confess them and expose them.”
There is nothing about “covering up” but rather about confessing the sin to Allah (swt) and atoning for it. You are an idiot Kennywise. You should confess to that. That is your sin. 🙂
@ QB
I think its funny he accused Paul of ignoring his “intellectual arguments” but didn’t he admit to not actually reading your response to him on jizya?
From my article above, which got info from Paul Williams’ old blogs.
The Prophet (pbuh) said, “Whoever does indecency, let him veil his acts with the veiling of God and let him make repentance.” He also said, “Whoever comes to our faces and admits them, then we will punish them.” (Hamza Yusuf)
The emphasis in the above is on the one act of sin. Islam emphasizes external sins – like adultery, rather than dealing with the root (s) of sin, the sinful nature within, and the evil thoughts and motives that spring from that. And since adultery is punishable by death in Islam, then the result is that there is lots of hiding and covering up and hypocrisy. As Jonathan Brown said in a lecture (I will have to track it down; as it was at Paul Williams old site) – “the Islamic Caliphs didn’t care what you did in private” (from memory)
I asked Paul Williams for the Hadith reference for this, and he never gave it. ”
Shows that same tendency to not expose the sins of the other Jihadist Muslims.
Islam is superior to Christianity in this regard.
That is the same attitude that kept those other Muslims you criticized for not speaking out against the violent extremists / Jihadists. This why Islam “overs up” sin and is inferior to Christianity. If you read the entire article, you can see.
What are you afraid of?
Not exposing the sins of another person doesn’t mean you don’t advise the person to stop. Islam is superior to Christianity because it holds every person responsible for their own sins. There is no “transfer” and no one else is held responsible.
@ Ken
Not letting sin run rampant in society does not mean you don’t also do other things. This is your red herring and generally being retarded when it comes to Islam’s doctrines.
Ken Temple, sorry off topics but since you are here I have a question for you. What is your opinion / explanation about Matthew 7:21-23:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who do what my Father in heaven wants will enter. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord! Lord! Didn’t we prophesy in your name? Didn’t we drive out demons in your name? Didn’t we do many miracles in your name?’ 23 Then I will tell them clearly, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who do evil!’
In my opinion no one does that but only Christians do everything in the name of Jesus and also it seems Jesus denies that he is God in judgment day .
I’m just curious and I want to know from Christian perspective.