10 And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Luke 2:10-11
Savior from sin ( Matthew 1:21)
The Christ = the Messiah = المسیح
The Lord = God – Psalm 110:1
( Matthew 1:23 Immanuel = “God with us”)
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
45 If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.
paid missionary ken temple, did you enjoy worshiping a pagan composite “fully god and fully baby” ? how did it feel?
the jewish people which american began to love said :
Jeremiah 2:5New International Version (NIV)
5 This is what the Lord says:
“What fault did your ancestors find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.
quoting jewish commentary on this
In Jeremiah’s days there were Jews who strayed after idols and God asked them; “what flaw did you find in Me?” (Jeremiah 2:5). God asks Israel; what were you missing in your worship of Me? What joy did you not find in your relationship with Me? And this is the question that the Jew asks the Church. Why do we need Jesus? What does Jesus have to offer to us that God didn’t already give us? What will we find in Jesus that we don’t have in God? What are we missing when we love God as David did before us? What can we be missing? Can you add anything on to God?
Maurice casey said :
Casey describes them as astrologers or magicians
Luke was a highly educated Greek Christian. He did not read about ‘wise men’ being ‘Gentiles’ at the birth of Jesus. He read about ‘magoi from the East’ (Mt. 2.1). From his point of view they were something like magicians or astrologers, and the notion that ‘we saw his star in the East’ (Mt. 2.2) probably seemed silly enough, before he got to ‘Behold, the star which they saw in the East, went before them, until it came and stood over the place where the child was’ (Mt. 2.9). Luke will have known perfectly well that not only did such things not happen, but magicians/astrologers told untrue stories in which such things did happen. He was writing for churches in the Greco-Roman world, and he will have known that starting like that would not have been attractive to the sort of people he knew well.
Shaikh Ibn Uthaimīn was asked, “What is the ruling on congratulating the unbelievers during their Christmas celebrations? How are we to respond to them if they congratulate us with Merry Christmas?” So he answered, “Congratulating the non-Muslims during their Christmas celebrations or other religious celebrations is forbidden by a consensus cited by Ibn Al-Qayyim in his book, Ahkām Ahlidh-Dhimmah…
If they congratulate us during their celebrations, then we do not respond to that, because it is not our celebration and it is a celebration that Allah is not pleased with. That is because either it is a celebration that they have innovated into their religion or it is one that is legislated in their religion but was abrogated with the advent of the religion of Islam which the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was sent with to the whole of mankind. It was regarding this that Allah said, “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be one of the losers.” (Āli ‘Imrān 3:85) Therefore, to accept an invitation from them at Christmas is forbidden because to participate with them (in a Christmas meal) is even more severe than congratulating them.” (Majmū’ Fatāwā 3/45-46, abridged)
I understand that this is one opinion. Am I justified in saying that other opinions, permitting congratulating non-muslims on their holidays are equally or at least also valid?
There is consensus on the issue and the evidence is clear. Finding other “shaykhs” like Yasir Qahdi, there is no surprise in what he says as he accommodates all the innovators.
I understand your position. But does categorically denying the validity of other opinions really do justice to the complexity of this issue as perceived by Muslim scholars at large?
For example, Dar al-ifta / al-Azhar, an international flagship for Islamic legal research, issued a fatwah permitting Muslims to congratulate non-Muslims on their holidays, including Christmas.
Also, The Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI) stated it respects both views and did not issue a fatwah on the issue, leaving “the matter to Muslims themselves to follow their own ulemas’ opinions”.
To help you in the future just quoting so and so holds this position basically means nothing to us. What matters is the strength of evidence being presented.
1. I linked to Dar al ifta’s / Al Azhar’s fatwah, so everyone might examine the arguments presented, for themselves.
2. In addition, to Dar al ifta’s / Al Azhar’s fatwah: When a recognized council of Muslim scholars respects both opinions I take this as an indication that both views are considered legitimate and that one view is not obviously more correct to the exclusion of the other. Moreover, I have seen numerous Muslim scholars and institutions (e.g., European Council for Fatwa and Research) who did not see a problem with congratulating non-Muslims on their holidays.
I dont claim to be knowledgeable on Islamic jurisprudence, so in my responses above, I phrased it in the form of questions. But why is the other opinion and the arguments of Al-Azhar clearly and categorically wrong?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKk9rv2hUfA
10 And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Luke 2:10-11
Savior from sin ( Matthew 1:21)
The Christ = the Messiah = المسیح
The Lord = God – Psalm 110:1
( Matthew 1:23 Immanuel = “God with us”)
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
45 If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.
Matthew 22:41-45
Sadly, the Gospels are not historically reliable.
@ Paul
Sadly, Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus(as) and is for the worship of Saturn (Saturnalia) and the Devil (Krampus).
Beating the Quran anytime when it comes to historical Jesus studies.
Joyfully, the gospels are quite historically reliable.
https://www.amazon.com/Historical-Reliability-Gospels-Craig-Blomberg/dp/0830828079
paid missionary ken temple, did you enjoy worshiping a pagan composite “fully god and fully baby” ? how did it feel?
the jewish people which american began to love said :
Jeremiah 2:5New International Version (NIV)
5 This is what the Lord says:
“What fault did your ancestors find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.
quoting jewish commentary on this
In Jeremiah’s days there were Jews who strayed after idols and God asked them; “what flaw did you find in Me?” (Jeremiah 2:5). God asks Israel; what were you missing in your worship of Me? What joy did you not find in your relationship with Me? And this is the question that the Jew asks the Church. Why do we need Jesus? What does Jesus have to offer to us that God didn’t already give us? What will we find in Jesus that we don’t have in God? What are we missing when we love God as David did before us? What can we be missing? Can you add anything on to God?
Maurice casey said :
Casey describes them as astrologers or magicians
Luke was a highly educated Greek Christian. He did not read about ‘wise men’ being ‘Gentiles’ at the birth of Jesus. He read about ‘magoi from the East’ (Mt. 2.1). From his point of view they were something like magicians or astrologers, and the notion that ‘we saw his star in the East’ (Mt. 2.2) probably seemed silly enough, before he got to ‘Behold, the star which they saw in the East, went before them, until it came and stood over the place where the child was’ (Mt. 2.9). Luke will have known perfectly well that not only did such things not happen, but magicians/astrologers told untrue stories in which such things did happen. He was writing for churches in the Greco-Roman world, and he will have known that starting like that would not have been attractive to the sort of people he knew well.
so did yhwh exist as a baby? keyword : EXIST.
Like u exist as a human, did yhwh exist as a human baby?
Shaikh Ibn Uthaimīn was asked, “What is the ruling on congratulating the unbelievers during their Christmas celebrations? How are we to respond to them if they congratulate us with Merry Christmas?” So he answered, “Congratulating the non-Muslims during their Christmas celebrations or other religious celebrations is forbidden by a consensus cited by Ibn Al-Qayyim in his book, Ahkām Ahlidh-Dhimmah…
If they congratulate us during their celebrations, then we do not respond to that, because it is not our celebration and it is a celebration that Allah is not pleased with. That is because either it is a celebration that they have innovated into their religion or it is one that is legislated in their religion but was abrogated with the advent of the religion of Islam which the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was sent with to the whole of mankind. It was regarding this that Allah said, “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be one of the losers.” (Āli ‘Imrān 3:85) Therefore, to accept an invitation from them at Christmas is forbidden because to participate with them (in a Christmas meal) is even more severe than congratulating them.” (Majmū’ Fatāwā 3/45-46, abridged)
Taken from Abukhadeejah.com
But shopping Christmas special offers is halal of course. Western university education anyone?
I understand that this is one opinion. Am I justified in saying that other opinions, permitting congratulating non-muslims on their holidays are equally or at least also valid?
https://www.islamicfinanceguru.com/general/a-compilation-of-christmas-fatawa/
There is consensus on the issue and the evidence is clear. Finding other “shaykhs” like Yasir Qahdi, there is no surprise in what he says as he accommodates all the innovators.
I understand your position. But does categorically denying the validity of other opinions really do justice to the complexity of this issue as perceived by Muslim scholars at large?
For example, Dar al-ifta / al-Azhar, an international flagship for Islamic legal research, issued a fatwah permitting Muslims to congratulate non-Muslims on their holidays, including Christmas.
Also, The Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI) stated it respects both views and did not issue a fatwah on the issue, leaving “the matter to Muslims themselves to follow their own ulemas’ opinions”.
Link to Dar al Ifta:
http://www.dar-alifta.org/Foreign/ViewFatwa.aspx?ID=6815
@ Marc C.
To help you in the future just quoting so and so holds this position basically means nothing to us. What matters is the strength of evidence being presented.
1. I linked to Dar al ifta’s / Al Azhar’s fatwah, so everyone might examine the arguments presented, for themselves.
2. In addition, to Dar al ifta’s / Al Azhar’s fatwah: When a recognized council of Muslim scholars respects both opinions I take this as an indication that both views are considered legitimate and that one view is not obviously more correct to the exclusion of the other. Moreover, I have seen numerous Muslim scholars and institutions (e.g., European Council for Fatwa and Research) who did not see a problem with congratulating non-Muslims on their holidays.
I dont claim to be knowledgeable on Islamic jurisprudence, so in my responses above, I phrased it in the form of questions. But why is the other opinion and the arguments of Al-Azhar clearly and categorically wrong?
General fatwah from Dar al-ifta on congratulating non-Muslims. http://www.dar-alifta.org/Foreign/ViewFatwa.aspx?ID=6710&LangID=2
@ Paul
Is there an issue with posting links? I tried to include links in the above post, but they did not come through.
no issue. Free to post.