Ken Temple’s amazing guide to evangelising Muslims: a method full of deception..

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Yes, our very own Ken has some handy tips for wannabe missionaries who want to convert Muslims. This is a screenshot from an article by him on his employers website (here).

In a long rambling article Ken shares how he came to be an effective missionary to Muslims.

His first attempt at worming his way into Muslim company involved asking some local Muslims if he could join their football team. He reports gleefully:

Sure enough, they accepted me and also later made some interesting comments that I was the first “white guy” that wanted to play soccer with them.

But he didn’t tell them the real reason for his interest in them. Ken was deceiving them. He was not just some nice dude wanting to chill with some Muslims.

No.

He had a hidden agenda. He was an evangelical missionary out to convert them.

Another “method” Ken used was to turn up unannounced at a mosque:

I remember just walking up to the mosque and meeting several Muslims and then it turned into a two or three hour discussion. Once I met a few Muslims and got their phone numbers, I was able to get into their lives more… It was amazing.

He boasts that as a result of his underhand dealings with some Muslims he met “I was able to get into their lives more”. He encourages other covert missionaries to adopt his underhand methodology.

The extent of Ken’s deception is truly staggering:

All the Muslims I have ever met were amazed that I wanted to “just hang out” with them. That context gave me thousands of opportunities to share the gospel and answer apologetic type questions with them. These principles are transferable into other cultures also.

Ken boasts how “All the Muslims I have ever met were amazed that I wanted to “just hang out” with them.”

Of course the Muslims were amazed!

He had taken advantage of their hospitality and good will. He concealed the real reason for his interest in them. He was not primarily interested in them, their lives and their culture. He had created missionary “opportunities” as their guard was now lowered, their defences down, their innocent trust in him assured. He was a false friend.

These techniques Ken now passes on to a new generation of wannabe missionaries to Muslims. All via their website.

But who is Ken Temple? We all know him well on Blogging Theology because of his endless inaccurate comments about Islam and his defence of American fundamentalist Christianity.

He also has a day job at Propempo International training missionaries for the Muslim world. Notice where the arrow points – to the heart of Muslim North Africa:

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It is based in Newnan, a city in Georgia, USA.  Here is Ken at work on the left in the red top.

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Blogging Theology stats tell me that Ken is by far the most frequent commentator on this site. But he is no random evangelical. He is a paid missionary to Muslims. He trains Christians on how to ‘befriend’ Muslims but conceal their real proselytizing agenda.

I thought readers might find it of interest to know this.

 

 



Categories: Christianity, Islam, USA

126 replies

  1. Looking at these guys, there is no light at all: soulless moron..

    Liked by 3 people

  2. Kennywise couldn’t get a real job? 🤣

    Liked by 2 people

  3. Reblogged this on The Quran and Bible Blog and commented:

    Ken Temple…another liar for Jesus!

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Like Paul the deceiver, Ken too is putting up an act to get Muslims into his cult.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Some of these extreme missionaries are dishonest manipulative scoundrels trying to deceive people the way biblical paul did.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. @ Paul

    Good find Paul! However, I believe there is an error in your article you said:

    “But who is Ken Temple? We all know him well on Blogging Theology because of his endless inaccurate comments about Islam and his defence of American fundamentalist Christianity.”

    When it should say:

    “But who is Ken Temple? We all know him well on Blogging Theology as the laughingstock who get’s b*tch slapped intellectually almost daily (which we lovingly call “nuking”) because of his endless inaccurate comments about Islam and his defence of American fundamentalist Christianity.”

    It’s no biggie just a simple slip of the tongue just thought I’d point that out to ya.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. The very same missionaries turn around and start shreiking “Taqiyya …Taqiyya… Islamic Taqiyyya!” On the top of their lungs :
    ” _But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice_ “( Phillippians 1:18)

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Well done Ken. Keep up the good work.

    Liked by 1 person

    • As stewjo004 says elsewhere:

      ‘Also, does anybody find it funny he is training how to preach to Muslims while it’s going horribly wrong for him? Shouldn’t he be the one getting more training?’

      Like

      • I think his style can work on some Muslims. Like he said they’re some very nice Muslim people. Ken is very patient and calm. It won’t work on most Muslims on this blog. They are just vile and arrogant. Not all, I can think of only one regular Muslim on this blog that I can say is decent human being compared to the other regulars.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Kenshiro

        Oh no some kaffir who doesn’t know how to wipe his butt nor make a decent theological argument thinks I’m a bad person because I don’t kiss the @$$ of people who insult my religion and spread propaganda against it daily. Whatever shall I do? Tell you what, bring some of your “Muslim friends” on here and have them interact with your jack@SS co-religionists and show us how it’s done.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Paul

        Shhh…🤫🤫🤫 those are the watercooler discussions.

        Great job Ken you’re doing great!!!

        Liked by 1 person

    • @ Kenshiro

      First off dumb@$$ he (saw) said don’t use bones:

      It was narrated from ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud, that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) forbade cleaning oneself with bones or dung.
      https://sunnah.com/urn/1000390

      THIS is the problem, you all are dumb (and I truly mean like “high functioning retards”) then try to comment about Islam. You’re simply upset with me because I saw through your “whoa is me I’m so pious” bs day 1. Hate to tell you none of that works on people with above grade school education.

      You like Ken are liars and you’re called out for it.

      Liked by 5 people

    • LOL, it didn’t take long for Kenshiro to expose his true nature. 99% of these crosstians are pathetic lowlifes who pretend to be the victim, and whine about Muslims when they are exposed and put in their place. Look, if you weren’t such a deceitful troll who demonizes Islam and Muslims, we could have a civilized conversation. But the problem is that 99% of you (on the Internet at least) are liars and hate-filled bigots.

      Liked by 2 people

    • @ QB

      Basically. I don’t know why these people don’t think we interact with non-Muslims on a daily basis and can see the difference in attitudes. It really is an insult to intelligence. Even in the above notice, I didn’t insult Christianity (even though it has PLENTY to make fun of) As I said and have yet to be proven wrong they only bring up “our attitude” because they want to be able to make fun of Islam without nothing coming back.

      Like

    • “Maybe I can learn how to wipe my a$$ from Muhammad. What did he say? Use bones and stone to wipe ass lol”

      just keep them unwashed like your saviour told you and stop being a fukin pharisee in your kitchen(washing pots, pans, dishes)

      Liked by 1 person

    • @ Kenshiro

      Look at Emma, you see why I say the majority of your co-religionist on this blog are high functioning retards?

      Like

  9. How is it deception when the conversations always went to religion & those issues?

    Teaching people to love other people sincerely in their culture, language, playing soccer ( football), appreciating their food and history and poetry, etc, these are principles that westerners need to learn – to love other people and not be afraid of Muslims.

    Like

    • “Teaching people to love other people”

      the jesus of the new testament considers christian women as gentile little bitches.

      jesus taught people to love their JEWISH brethren, the roman ARSE lickers who changed jesus’ teaching were evangelising….thats why they have to make jesus go and preach to non jews. Orginal jesus told his followers to PREACH just to the jews.

      paul says that among the gentiles there are those philosophers who love neighbor, are kind and helpful…read jesus in matthew 6.24-33 why etnocentric over generalisation about GENTILES?Why jevus did not LIKE to learn about other cultures and thought?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Kennywise says it’s not deception to teach people to “not be afraid of Muslims”. Meanwhile, he spreads propaganda against Islam being a violent religion. Go figure…

      Hmm, maybe you shouldn’t pretend to be interested in their culture (that’s clearly not the motive for you to approach them), and just be honest that you are a missionary trying to infiltrate groups of Muslims to spread your propaganda among them. Then see what kind of response you get.

      Liked by 5 people

      • There is a big difference between Muslims as people vs. Islam as a system, it’s doctrines, and Jihads / Qatl ( fight & slay to the death or pay Jiziye), Surah 9:29 & harb (war), caliphate, & sharia law in history.

        Like

      • 🤣🤣🤣 Hey moron, all true Muslims believe in jihad, whether that’s in the form of struggling against one’s self or fighting against western imperialists and exposing those who make excuses for modern-day crusades.

        For most Muslims, Islam is a way of life. Unlike your stupid religion, which kisses secularism’s rear-end and only pays lip service to God’s laws, Islam submits to God’s sovereignty in all aspects of life.

        Face it Kennywise. You are cut from the same cloth as the demonic false prophet Paul. You both lie and deceive to try to win converts to your idolatrous, pagan religion. That makes you the children of Satan, the father of all lies.

        Liked by 2 people

      • @ Ken

        Not really. We all agree about fighting these people and laugh about Rome and Persia’s destruction while teaching it to our kids. The two things are very intertwined and doesn’t bother us like you are with the Hebrew Bible.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ QB

        I’m telling you. There is literally no Muslim in the world that has an issue with fighting it’s simply THE PEOPLE fighting, what they’re doing and for what reasons other than what they’re claiming that’s the issue. Again one can’t be a “Muslim” without believing in “Islam”.

        Liked by 2 people

  10. Those dudes spend lot of money and hours of plotting to convince muslims that the true god got squeezed out of a vagina and died on a cross naked! It’s kinda sad!

    Many of the People of the Book wish to turn you back into unbelievers after you have believed, out of envy on their part, after the Truth has become clear to them. But pardon and overlook, until God brings His command. God has power over all things” QT

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Paul w. Wrote:

    //He was a false friend.//

    That is not true .
    All of my interactions were sincere and based on learning about humanity and other cultures and developing those friendships were real they were never false.

    It was taking the Bible seriously when it says “love your neighbor as yourself” which is in Leviticus chapter 19 and also quoted by Jesus and Luke chapter 10 .

    Like

    • “It was taking the Bible seriously when it says “love your neighbor as yourself” which is in Leviticus chapter 19 and also quoted by Jesus and Luke chapter 10 .”

      idolatry /spiritual homosexuality by imaging god as one with wounds and holes (recall thomas poking jesus and you licking tomas fingers )is not LOVING your neighbor. you only wish to lead people to hell fire and your imagination and spriiltual homsexuality will burn with you. You have fused your love for the created with the uncreated

      Can you tell me how u think of yhwh.as a man?

      was yhwh

      Short/tall

      Ugly/pretty

      Fat(like u)/ skinny

      hairy/hairless?

      how do you imagine yhwh? tell me more about yhwh the man. u never like discussing your thoughts on “god the man”

      Like

  12. This is spreading successfully. I heard something like one million Christians in Bangla Desh already? Look at Bolsonaro and Jeanine Anez in South America, Muslims are so stupid.

    Like

  13. “This proves the truth of the beauty of the Christian faith – there was no force “until the eighth century”, which was wrong. ”

    so why did eight century crosstians think torah style ruling was preferable than jesus’ teaching :”i have not come to bring peace but sword and how i have to bring bring division between jewish peoples ?

    what did they(8th ce) see about “kingdom of god” which the pagan crosstians influenced by stoic philosophy did not ?

    Like

  14. Ken Temple wrote:
    There is a big difference between Muslims as people vs. Islam as a system, it’s doctrines, and Jihads / Qatl ( fight & slay to the death or pay Jiziye), Surah 9:29 & harb (war), caliphate, & sharia law in history.

    Stewjo004 wrote:

    Not really. We all agree about fighting these people and laugh about Rome and Persia’s destruction while teaching it to our kids. The two things are very intertwined and doesn’t bother us like you are with the Hebrew Bible.

    Ken Temple:
    Interesting. You don’t know the difference between human beings as people, vs. a system and doctrine/ idea?

    We are all created in the image of God and valuable as human beings. The gospel is for all peoples, cultures, nations, languages.

    Revelation 5:9

    Revelation 7:9

    Matthew 28:19

    Like

    • @ Ken

      Interesting that you don’t know:

      1. Islam is a religion so saying Muslims don’t believe in Islam by definition doesn’t make them Muslims.

      2. Islam is DEEPLY engrained in these nations as part of national identity and culture.Why do you think you’ve failed miserably at missionary activities over the centuries? Again NO Muslim has issue with fighting especially the Prophet’s(saw) war with Quraish or destroying Persia and Rome. You however have an issue with the Hebrew Bible which uss why you never shownit too Muslims when preaching.

      3. Revelation as a book means nothing and was written by some heretic and Matt 28:19 is a forgery.

      4. Not that valuable as according to your religion no other nation recieved warners or prophets. So basically trillions of people went to Hell for no reason.

      Like

      • 1. Many more Muslims are rejecting parts of their religion. Most retain some aspects of it.
        2. “Deeply ingrained” (you spelled ingrained wrong – amazing with spell check.😉) – yes I agree with that. It is an entire system of not just religion/spirituality but includes government, military, economics, politics, art, culture – yes, I understand that. But modern life, global village, trade, business, commerce, travel, the internet, the last 100 years, democracy movements, Marxism elements in some places, etc. has broken down a lot of that stuff.

        I don’t mind using the Old Testament (all of it is true), but parts of it were fulfilled by Christ and no longer applicable – the food laws, animal sacrifices, the temple and the priesthood, the land promises to Israel (fulfilled in heaven/ the new heavens and the new earth – Hebrews chapter 11; Revelation 21-22; Galatians 4:26), Jewish feasts laws, harsh death penalty punishments (except for first degree murder and rape – but with due process of finding out what happened by trials, evidence, witnesses, fairness).

        3. Revelation and Matthew are God’s word. I understand that you don’t accept them. That is your choice. But you rejecting them does nothing to hinder their power.

        4. Yours is worse, in that respect, as it came 600 years after Jesus, and around 1,000 years after final prophet of Israel. (430 BC – Malachi)

        Like

      • @ Ken

        1. Uhhh…no? If anything everyone is becoming more religious and in a short span of time. If you were talking 50 years ago, you might have a point. But if anyone knows our history or Muhammad’s (saw) prophecies they’d realize God is setting us up for victory. Those movements like nationalism were by-products of colonialism and that’s slowly dying. And the only reason the Marxist/democratic movements took off is that they naively thought Communism or Democracy was the reason the US and Russia were strong.

        2. I think spell check didn’t say anything because engrain is correct:

        “Engrain is an alternative spelling of the same word. It is considered correct, but its usage is rare.”

        But that’s just a guess.

        3. I’m not the only one who didn’t believe in it. The book of Revelation almost didn’t make it in and was heavily considered to be the forgery of a heretic and is clearly talking about Emperor Nero. None of this has any “power” it’s a bunch of people copying others and making things up as they go along. All it demonstrates is the “power” lies have.

        Also, I’m not talking about dietary laws (as I know you’re all to hypocritical for that). I was talking about the green light for genocide and rape.

        4. That literally countered nothing I said. You’re the one who doesn’t believe prophets went to other nations other than Israel so your heretical fanfiction has a major plot hole in it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • “but parts of it were fulfilled by Christ and no longer applicable ”

        ITs all bullshit. you can EITHER obey or disobey a law. you don’t do this “fulfilling ” shite.

        ESPECIALLY a filthy pagan human sacrifices. sacrifices in torah do not “FULFILL ”
        mandated laws.

        “– the food laws, animal sacrifices,”

        the torah does not make this separation. law is law. all of it.


        the temple and the priesthood, the land promises to Israel (fulfilled in heaven/ the new heavens and the new earth – Hebrews chapter 11; Revelation 21-22; Galatians 4:26),”

        torah says the signs will be seen on earth, not in heaven. no body is seeing any heavenly stuff. you RENDER torah into unseen fulfillment.

        “Jewish feasts laws, harsh death penalty punishments ”

        there is NOTHING in the torah which says that the PENALTIES are harsh white boy.
        i tell you the TRUTH, when MOSES was STONING to death sabbath breakers or PAGANS jews from his OWN family , he DID not see stoning as harsh.

        yet, YOU, a white PAGAN sitting in AMERICA, calling stoning HArsh? did you get a PUBLIC REVEALATION AND CROWNED IN FRONT OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS TELLING THEM STONING TO DEATH IS GODS REVELATION ?

        you ARROGANT PAGAN !

        who are you to CALL yhwhs MIND harsh?

        who are you ?


        (except for first degree murder and rape ”

        this is why jesus said to christians that the BEST way to avoid FIRST DEGREE murder is to TAKE out the eyes WHICH causes one to do the murder ?

        remove the SENSES before they help doom you in hell


        – but with due process of finding out what happened by trials, evidence, witnesses, fairness).”

        so you alright with “oral torah,” ?

        is it divinely inspired?

        Like

  15. @ Son if Satan

    Maybe if you adopted some hygienic practices the bubonic plague wouldn’t have been that devastating. But hey your text has Jesus(as) saying washing your hands is bad. I guess we can conclude they weren’t using anything.

    Like

  16. ken is a paid missionary? Ken, can you find me a 12 year old christian prostitute because blankets and fire dont seem to be keeping me warm. I promise i will tell the christian church “i was not having sex with her”

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Ken Temple, the hypocrite, said
    Islam as a system, it’s doctrines, and Jihads / Qatl ( fight & slay to the death or pay Jiziye), Surah 9:29 & harb (war), caliphate, & sharia law in history.

    Well, aside from the fact that he has been refuted in all these subjects, I see that the main objection western christians -in particular- arise is the cultural objection. It’s not that Islam is not convincing or not making sense, rather it makes perfect sense, but those christians are so worldly people. They like this Dunia so much. It’s the comfort zone for them, so they don’t want get their butt up and start to be responsible.
    That is because they have preferred the worldly life to the Hereafter, and because God does not guide the people who refuse” QT
    Ironically, Jesus also was not with their side either.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Ken is it a part of your job at Propempo International to comment here on Blogging Theology?

    Liked by 2 people

    • @ Paul

      I assumed so. Paul, you should be honored you caught their attention.

      Liked by 1 person

    • In general yes; as a minister to Muslims and former Muslims, yes; as your first material when I first started interacting with you was in 2011 and your debates (when you were with MDI, etc.) and blog and the attacks you were using- (gospel harmony differences, James D. G. Dunn, Tuckett, some aspects of N.T. Wright, Raymond Brown, some aspects of Richard Bauckham against 2 Peter, the whole “Jesus of History vs. Christ of Faith” material you put up and the James Tabor type stuff of “Paul” vs. “original disciples of Jesus”, ie, Paul and John writings vs. the claim that original disciples were “proto-Muslims” or Ebionites or Arians, etc. (Peter and James and some of Matthew, etc.), liberal theology, text and canon issues, church history, the Trinity issues, etc.
      My own “apologetics and agape” was set up in part, in order to provide answers to your attacks, along with other issues related to the Christian faith. Understanding your way of using other less than conservative Christians to attack the Christian faith has strengthened my faith and knowledge of those issues in order to defend the Scriptures and the Christian Faith. I have ordered several books because of your attacks and they help me understand where they are coming from in the grand scheme of liberal attacks on the Faith and how Muslims like you use them against the Christian Faith.

      But I only make comments when I have some extra time and the answers are what I already know and ready or don’t require lots of research.
      That is why in the past, I have stopped for periods of time – I am too busy with life and work.

      Liked by 1 person

    • “In general yes; as a minister to Muslims and former Muslims, yes; as your first material when I first started interacting with you was in 2011 and your debates”

      since your doing a shit job, do you have a deduction of your hourly wage as punishment?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Only God can convince someone in their hearts.
        John 6:44, 65
        Acts 16:14
        Only God can cause regeneration (new birth) John 3:1-10
        Only God can open eyes and change the heart.
        2 Corinthians 4:6

        Only God can cause repentance.
        2 Timothy 2:24-26

        Our job is to be faithful in proclaiming and living the truth.

        Like

      • @ Ken

        “Our job is to be faithful in proclaiming and living the truth.”

        By lying to people and pretending you care about their lives.

        Liked by 2 people

      • you avoided answering about your MATERIAL payment on this earth. do you get some kind of PUNISHMENT if you are not doing a quality job? would it affect your salary?

        Liked by 1 person

      • @Ken a list of Bible references is a poor excuse for an argument.

        Liked by 2 people

  19. ken, i have tried blankets and fire, the warmth of a twelve year old christian nurse might do me wonders in bed. i promise to tell all christians in church that i didnt have sex on the condition that the girl is BEAUTIFUL. Since u r a paid missionary , help me out here.

    Like

  20. the president of america considers king david as his prophit

    Quote:
    And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture—I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look….I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

    Like

  21. Paul Williams wrote:

    @Ken a list of Bible references is a poor excuse for an argument.

    And yet, I gave a summary of each group of Scriptural passages:

    Only God can convince someone in their hearts.
    John 6:44, 65
    Acts 16:14
    Only God can cause regeneration (new birth) John 3:1-10
    Only God can open eyes and change the heart.
    2 Corinthians 4:6

    Only God can cause repentance.
    2 Timothy 2:24-26

    Our job is to be faithful in proclaiming and living the truth.

    The point is, we believe in the unseen, the Holy Spirit who works invisibly and sovereignly to convince people.

    God uses His word, Scripture and the love and care of actual lives and also respectful, reasonable, intellectual arguments in persuasion, when accompanied by respectfulness, but ultimately, only the invisible God, who is Spirit (John 4:23-24) can change the mind and heart on the inside.

    Stewjo wrote:

    By lying to people and pretending you care about their lives.

    Believing that Christianity is true and the Bible is true is not lying.

    If Christianity is true, then Islam is false and it is a 600 year later false religion and subjective claim of one man, who seems to have sincerely wanted Monotheism for his people and to get rid of idolatry and wanted Scriptures in his own language. But he was ignorant and uneducated in the previous Scriptures. He was smart and cunning in many ways, from what we know. He got almost nothing from the NT except that he knew a written book existed among the people of the book, (The people of the book – what book / Scripture were they reading at the time?), and called the message of Jesus “the Injeel”, understood Him as “Al Masih”, virgin born, did miracles, was sinless, had disciples, etc.

    Sincerely believing Christianity is true and Islam is false is not lying.

    I never pretended to care about people. I really do; even you guys. I know you don’t think so, but I sincerely do care about all of you and some times, I have prayed for you by the names you go by here. (Faiz, mr.heathcliff, Stewjo004, Paul W, – I do pray for each of you and I sincerely wish you the peace of Jesus – John 14:27; Matthew 11:28-30; Romans 5:1)

    Whereas, I saw over at Qur’an and Bible blog (Faiz’s blog) that Stewjo004 called me “a piece of sh!t”.

    I would say that the evidence is here for all to see who cares about who in the way you guys behave – especially the three – Faiz, mr.heathcliff, and Stewjo – you guys eventually resort to name calling, ad hominem, cursing, dirty language, insults, etc.

    and Paul Williams as a Muslim does not call you out for bad Islamic methods and bad manners – ادب . You violate Surah 29:46

    Like

    • @ Ken

      1. I never resort to name-calling during discussion this is just an excuse you tell yourself.

      2. I have said this once and I’ll say it again ahem, I AM NOT GIVING YOU DAWAH. Dawah is for people who can honestly listen, we are engaged in a form of fighting as far as I’m concerned. Quite frankly, Ken I HATE YOU for what you do and I stand by my statement. You are to worse to me than an aids infested child molester. When I watched you on a Youtube video committing your shirk, watch you defend it and attack the truth it PHYSICALLY makes me sick. The ONLY reason I engage on this blog is so that other Muslims are not confused by your weak arguments and deceptive tactics. Any real discussion or care between us died when you continued to use your whole “Al Jabbar” argument despite knowing this exists in the Bible. I have never been two face and I hope that clears up our relationship.

      3. Yes God is the One who opens the hearts and if He leads someone astray to worship a human there’s nothing I can do no matter how many evidences are I present refute it and they avoid the uncomfortable answer. So 100% agreement there.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Any real discussion or care between us died when you continued to use your whole “Al Jabbar” argument despite knowing this exists in the Bible.

        I never dened that Hebrew cognate forms of Al Jabbar exist in the Hebrew Bible. El Gibbor = the mighty God
        אֵל גִּבֹּור

        The name of the child to be born (Messiah, Son of God, Immanuel, virgin born, God with us) Isaiah 9:6 and 7:14

        But the El here is the form for Elohim, God, not the definite article, etc.

        It is the way we put it all together in theological harmony with other passages that we disagree on.

        The same goes for “the best deceiver” / the best trickster / schemer” – We explain that theologically in the Westminster Confession of Faith and 2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith as God sovereignly ordaining all things that happen – but that God does actually do the sin or the evil or deception; rather He decided to allow Satan (Job chapters 1-2; 2 Cor. 12:7-10; Luke 22:31 ) to attack His servants for the purpose of strengthening them in the faith and getting rid of pride / arrogance, etc.

        I don’t deny that there are aspects that are similar in Reformed theology with God’s sovereignty in Islam, but it seems to me, honestly, that in Islam, Allah is more directly involved in actually doing the deception.

        OF GOD’S DECREE

        Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4
        1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
        2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Titus 1:2; Hab. 1:13; Hebrews 6:18
        3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11; Job chapters 1-2; Luke 22:31; 2 Cor. 12:7-10
        4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

        Like

      • And also, God sends the delusion and deception as judgment on evil people, after the refused the truth. Notice they first refused the truth and then God sends the delusion as a judgment.

        2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

        10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

        1 Kings 22:20-22 – Notice the evil spirit does the deception, not the Lord Himself.

        And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’

        “One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’

        22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.

        “‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.

        “‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’

        Like

      • @Ken Temple

        To use you’re logic ken, has a man who orders the killing/rape/deception of another person not committed a sin?

        Also I couldn’t help but notice you used Isaiah 9:6 to support the divinity of Christ(a.s). I have to ask, are you a modalist? If not, then how do you deal with fact the child in this passage is described as being the father?

        Liked by 1 person

    • “I never pretended to care about people. I really do; even you guys. I know you don’t think so, but I sincerely do care about all of you and some times, I have prayed for you by the names you go by here. (Faiz, mr.heathcliff, Stewjo004, Paul W, – I do pray for each of you and I sincerely wish you the peace of Jesus – John 14:27; Matthew 11:28-30; Romans 5:1)”

      you could change it to thor:

      “I never pretended to care about people. I really do; even you guys. I know you don’t think so, but I sincerely do care about all of you and some times, I have prayed for you by the names you go by here. (Faiz, mr.heathcliff, Stewjo004, Paul W, – I do pray for each of you and I sincerely wish you the peace of thor – (mark 15:14)”

      Quran says :

      Sahih International: The Jews say “The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on,” and the Christians say, “The Jews have nothing to stand on,” although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.

      here the jew agree with the quran :

      (We are told about and expected to believe the reports of a god that no one can know and no one can please (but jeesus, mind you) but yet they’re the authority on this god… does this make sense? If they are even remotely correct on their slam-fest of God, how is it that they know what God is like? Are they merely believing and PROMULGATING second-hand information? Were people like King David, the Prophet Moses, the Patriarchs, the Later Prophets lying when they ascribed adjectives of “mercy, loving kindness, abundant compassion and comforting” to this “vengeful” God? But they claim it’s the same god they serve! Were these biblical personalities wrong in their assessment of God and these xians who really don’t have a relationship with God (or a relationship by proxy) possessing the “true” relationship? And can you really have a relationship via proxy? How intimate is a relationship if you have to go through someone else to have a simple conversation with the one you’re to have a relationship with–and with a person (or in this case god) who, were it not for jeesus, would consider you worm fodder and banish you? REmember, according to xians, without jeesus no one could know god or have a relationship with him. So is jeesus our ticket to a relationship with god, or the wool pulled over god’s eyes (and our own) with regard to the true relationship? Or are we really just having a relationship with ourselves and this belief in jeesus is a mere distraction from the reality that no one can know this unreachable god? Is there anything more pathetic and more sad than to have a relationship by proxy; knowing the Object of your supposed loyalty and devotion doesn’t love you but only tolerates you because of someone else? Take that piece away and we’re back to the fundamental view of this “god” to his creation. What does that really say about this “god”?

      no set of lies is more damning and more self-serving than to tell people that they are defective from birth, can never know God, cannot improve themselves and they are damned for all eternity unless you believe their variant/cult and to believe otherwise is the ultimate delusion. Are there any lies WORSE to not only one’s soul but one’s perception of the CREATOR HIMSELF??????? Is there anything MORE disgusting to the very Mercy, Compassion and “You can do it!” encouragement given by God Himself (even right in the VERY opening chapters of Genesis—- God tells Cain he can overcome evil! This from a “vengeful, can-never-please-Him” God!)? Is there any sin greater than to have one of God’s creations believe they can never know Him without any aides, “blood tricks” and “redemption coupons” from Jeesus?

      The lies of these xians is “God knows you can’t have a relationship with him because you’re dirty, worthless, vile and wretched .. you’re spiritual trash. Only a bloody go between can mend the bridge”. They lie about God and also fail to ask the obvious.. what person would WANT a relationship with someone who will only see you as less than.. and only by the CHARITY of another can you come into a “relationship” with this person? Who wants a relationship with a god who only allows you to come into his presence via a proxy.. can it even be called a relationship? I think this is the most vile lie ever devised… lying about God and then LYING about the inherent potential (and the “god spark” ALL people have!) just so you can form an emotional attachment to jeesus.)

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sahih International: For they had denied the truth when it came to them, but there is going to reach them the news of what they used to ridicule.

        Like

  22. Where Stewjo004 called me “a piece of Sh!t”

    This shows that it is your side does not care about people in your so called “Da’wa”. Eventually, the anger and hatred comes out from your heart onto the keyboard.

    https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2019/11/17/ken-temples-amazing-guide-to-evangelising-muslims-a-method-full-of-deception/#comment-10977

    Liked by 1 person

  23. The point is, we believe in the unseen, the Holy Spirit who works invisibly and sovereignly to convince people.

    I know there are verses in the Qur’an and Hadith about a true Muslim must also believe in the unseen realm. (Spirit, the spirits, angels, demons, Jinn, Satan, heaven, hell, God – that God is invisible and knows everything everywhere, etc.)

    Why don’t you guys demonstrate that you believe in that principles by trusting God the unseen to do the work of “opening hearts” rather than trusting in human efforts of attacks ?

    Like

  24. The recent article Paul W. put up demonstrates my point.

    We believe the truth of Christianity is “supra-rational” (it is not contradictory to reason and logic, but it is beyond and above pure rationality, etc. – it depends on the ability of God the unseen to do whatever He wants to do, without violating His nature.

    Dr Yasir Qadhi writes:

    Not every aspect of Islam is ‘rational’, meaning you cannot necessarily logically explain every ruling or intellectually prove every theological fact of Islam. There are aspects of our faith that are supra-rational, meaning they are beyond the realm of rationality, and therefore proving or understanding or rationalizing them are simply not within the scope of the human mind.

    Like

  25. Aww, Kennywise is still whining after being exposed as liar and hypocrite.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Vaqas Rehman wrote:

    To use you’re logic ken, has a man who orders the killing/rape/deception of another person not committed a sin?

    Entire books have been on the subject of God’s Sovereignty, even over the evil actions of men, demons, and Satan.

    The Westminster Confession of Faith and 2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith, on God’s Decree, which I gave you above, answers that question. Beyond, that, because I don’t have time to constantly re-do the wheel on this issue, I would suggest you search the issue of “God’s Sovereignty and Man’s responsibility” and you can search for articles on this issue at John Piper’s website: http://www.desiringgod.org – John MacArthur and R. C. Sproul also answer those questions from a Reformed Protestant viewpoint.

    Also I couldn’t help but notice you used Isaiah 9:6 to support the divinity of Christ(a.s). I have to ask, are you a modalist?

    No.

    If not, then how do you deal with fact the child in this passage is described as being the father?

    “father of eternity” does mean “The Father” of the Holy Trinity, rather the “father of time”, ie, originator / creator of time, eternity, etc. – meaning a term of Deity also, which the Son / the Messiah shares with the Father, since the person in Isaiah 9 is “the Son” / The Messiah, the virgin born one. with Isaiah 7:14

    Like

      • @ Ken

        Sigh

        1. You’re attempting to try and differentiate the two exact same concepts again:

        19:83. Didn’t you notice that I am the One who allowed the demons to be unleashed against them to slowly incite them more and more?

        This is why I said you’re not honest as this is literally saying the same thing you are. All these verses are clearly on disbelievers when they choose their path:

        2:26. Understand that God is not ashamed to strike a metaphor from something even as small as a mosquito or whatever is over it. Because for the believers, when they hear them, they know that this is the Truth from their Lord; while those who are committed to disbelief say: “What does God mean by using these stupid metaphors?” He misguides many with them, and He guides many with them, but He only misguides those who are disobedient and corrupt.
        2:27. The same ones who break their promise with God after the terms have been established. And cut off what God has ordered to remain bound together; causing chaos throughout the earth, because they are the losers.

        2. Even if you look at the verses, God misguides when people do evil.

        13:42. Those before them also plotted and planned, but the entire plan is God’s. He knows what every person earns and the disbelievers will soon find out who will have the most incredible home.

        52:42. Or is it the case that they intend to devise (some) plot? If so, then those who disbelieve are the ones who a plot will be made against

        21:70. They planned to harm him, but I made them the ones that lost the most.

        4:108. They try to hide themselves from the people, but they cannot hide from God. He is with them when they plot at night, saying things that do not please Him and He is always surrounding whatever they’re doing.

        6:123. And that is how I placed in every city the greatest of its criminals so that they can make their plots within it. But they’re not plotting any kind of destruction except for themselves and they don’t even realize it.

        10:21. When I let people taste a bit of mercy after some difficulties have touched them, they then begin to plan against My revelations. Tell them: “God plans faster.” Have no doubts, My emissaries are writing down all of what you’ve been plotting.

        13:33…No, the case is ˹that˺ the disbelievers plotting and lying has been made alluring to them and they were blocked from God’s path. And so whoever God misleads you will never find a guide for.

        14:46. They made their plots, but whatever they plot is God’s, even if these plots were enough to bring down the mountains.
        14:47. So don’t dare think that God will go back on His promise made to His Messengers. He is the Final Authority and completely capable of taking revenge.

        35:42. They swore the most serious promises that if a warner came to them, they would be more guided than any nation. But when a warner did come, nothing increased in them except a group mentality filled with hatred,
        35:43. becoming more arrogant in the land and intensifying in their evil plots. But the evil plot only comes back on the one who makes it. Do they expect anything different than the way that happened to the previous nations, because you will never find any change in God’s Way?

        105:1. Haven’t you seen how your Lord dealt with the Army of the Elephant?
        105:2. Didn’t He make all their plotting go to waste?

        You’re just trying to find “something” so you can criticize it. Again this is a dishonest methodology,

        3. Immanuel has nothing to do with Jesus(as) nor the prophecy of being born of a virgin

        4. You are not “supra-rational” you are “illogical”. You twist verses of your text to try and fit a doctrine that was later developed. You created a theology then try to insert it into the text as opposed to taking your theology from the text. Again if you follow simple rules of interpretation, the Trinity is not correct.

        Liked by 3 people

    • QUOTE:
      “father of eternity” does mean “The Father” of the Holy Trinity,

      rather the “father of time”, ie, originator / creator of time, eternity, etc. – meaning a term of Deity also, which the Son / the Messiah shares with the Father,

      divine nature = father of time, then what does the father person =?

      so you have two fathers in trinity ?

      “since the person in Isaiah 9 is “the Son” / The Messiah, the virgin born one. with Isaiah 7:14”

      it says “god is with us”
      so you think the baby born was identified as god?

      the kid was named “he called his name”

      Like

      • “rather the “father of time”, ie, originator / creator of time, eternity, etc. – meaning a term of Deity also, which the Son / the Messiah shares with the Father,”

        “For a child has been born for us,
        a son given to us;
        authority rests upon his shoulders;
        and he is named
        Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
        Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

        ken temples reading

        For a child (one person) has been born for us,
        a son (one person) given to us;
        authority rests upon his (one person) shoulders;
        and he (one person) is named
        Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
        Everlasting Father (divine nature), Prince of Peace (is this a person or nature).

        how does ken know that the “he” is divine nature when the “he” is being named ?

        Like

      • isaiah is telling his readers that the son is a shared divine nature ?

        Like

  27. 19:83. Didn’t you notice that I am the One who allowed the demons to be unleashed against them to slowly incite them more and more?

    This is why I said you’re not honest as this is literally saying the same thing you are.

    Actually, I agree that with that specific verse; and what you are saying, that it is the same thing.

    However, it does not fit with the “Allah is the best deceiver / trickster / schemer” verses, (Surah 3:54-55; 8:30; 10:22; 7:99) because in those specific verses, Allah actually does the deception Himself.

    Notice 7:99:
    Then did they feel secure from the plan / scheme / deception/ trick مکر of Allah ? But no one feels secure from the plan/ scheme/ trick/ deception مکر of Allah except the losing people.

    Notice the believers are the ones who do not feel secure. Maybe the English translation of that book about Abu Bakr’s uncertainty and fear is a translation that is hiding the true original. (punishment vs. deception, Mukr, مکر

    It will take me some time to work through the other examples.

    Like

    • Sahih International: And if only the people of the cities had believed and feared Allah , We would have opened upon them blessings from the heaven and the earth; but they denied [the messengers], so We seized them for what they were earning.”

      Sahih International: Then, did the people of the cities feel secure from Our punishment coming to them at night while they were asleep?

      Sahih International: Or did the people of the cities feel secure from Our punishment coming to them in the morning while they were at play?

      Sahih International: Then did they feel secure from the plan of Allah ? But no one feels secure from the plan of Allah except the losing people.

      Sahih International: Has it not become clear to those who inherited the earth after its [previous] people that if We willed, We could afflict them for their sins? But We seal over their hearts so they do not hear.

      Sahih International: Those cities – We relate to you, [O Muhammad], some of their news. And certainly did their messengers come to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe in that which they had denied before. Thus does Allah seal over the hearts of the disbelievers.

      so one second, since they are caught off guard, then you think this is deception ?

      Like

    • mr pagan temple, the laam of negation which is used in the text, what TYPE of laam is it?

      Like

    • “Notice the believers are the ones who do not feel secure.”

      so you think like the disbelievers the muslims should have felt independent of Allah ?

      Like

    • “except the losing people.”

      so muslims like the losing people should think that they should not WORRY and feel independent of ALLAH ?

      Like

  28. @ Ken

    The context of the verse is very simple if you try to plot against God He is better at itthan you. That’s it.

    Regarding 7:99 this has to do with the destroyed nations such as Sodom and Gomorrah.

    7:96. Had the people in those cities believed and became god fearing, I would’ve showered them with blessings upon blessing from the heavens and earth, however, they lied against the revelation so I seized them on account of their sins that they used to earn for themselves.
    7:97. Did the people of those cities feel safe that My punishment would never come to them in the middle of the night while they were sleeping?
    7:98. Did the people of those cities feel safe that My punishment would never come to them in the middle of a sunny day while they were playing?
    7:99. Did they feel safe against God’s plan? Because it’s only the losers feel safe against God’s plan.

    As for the Muslim idk why missionaries seem to think humbleness is confusion. You fear God not to sin but know He’s Forgiving and Merciful when you do. God knows what’s in everyone’s heart. The quotes are being stripped from context as they are not wanting to be like certain hypocrites

    ^ THIS is what all those quotes from Prophet Muhammad(saw) , Abu Bakr(ra) etc \. are scared of happening to them. This is humility from Muslims to always check their intentions as this “I’m saved” is the trait of hypocrites as you don’t know how yours or another person’s end will be and this arrogance is one of the ways God blinds a person. If you go in not trying to nitpick the concept is easy to understand as NO ONE (including Jesus) gets in through their actions it is only through God’s mercy.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Although that teaching is good – about motives and intentions and pride, etc., it is 600 years late, and + 200 years more (if Hadith was added later or corrupted) years later.

      Christianity emphasized that much earlier.
      Jesus and the OT and the NT taught about the motives and showing off 600- 800 years earlier, and OT around 3000 years earlier than Islam.

      Matthew 6:1-8

      Hebrews 4:12

      Mark 7:20-23

      Genesis 6:5

      Jeremiah 17:9

      Proverbs 16:2, 5, 9, 18

      Glad to see that Yasir Qadhi taught that Islam says that God judges motives of the heart.
      He says that this Hadith is in both Muslim and Al Bukhari, but does not give the specific reference.

      I found a similar one in another collection of Hadith called “Riyad as-Salahin”

      https://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/18/107

      Where is it in Sahih Al Bukhari or Sahih Muslim?

      Is it deemed Sahih by the Islamic scholars?

      How do we know their judgment is infallible?

      Still, this is much more emphasized in the Bible (OT and NT)

      Your religion is late, and seems to have added this emphasis on motives / intentions later, because the Qur’an itself is mainly about external societal laws and rituals.

      Like

      • “it is 600 years late”
        This is so stupid, especially when you know that Islam is the pure normal continuance of God’s message to al his prophets.

        Worshiping a human being has never been the message of God to his prophets. The blood of a naked man has never been the road to salvation according to the message of God to his prophets.

        Liked by 1 person

      • “because the Qur’an itself is mainly about external societal laws and rituals”

        This is either a lie or ignorance from your part. I think you are both a liar and ignorant to be honest.

        Liked by 1 person

      • the key word is “mainly”, and in order to get emphasis on the heart and motives, you have to go to Hadith (collections 200 years later) and books on Sufism

        Like

      • And I’m talking about Qur’an. Do you really compare Qur’an with the heretic books of Sufism?
        It’s just you’re ignorant about Qur’an.
        The most perfect spirituality is that one which is presented in Qur’an.
        Your notion about hadith is irrelevant.,and it’s not correct.

        The “spirituality” that tells you that cleaning your body contradicts the cleaning of your heart is a Pauline stupid invention. We have refuted already about it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Ken

        Down the line:

        1. Riyad as Saliheen

        Riyad as Saliheen is a tertiary hadith book. This book was written by Imam An Nawawi(rh). His intent making this was compiling ahadith together for regular Muslims read (so you have ones on anger, etc). Hadith books like Bukhari, Muslim, etc weren’t really meant to be read like how you (or normal Muslims for that matter) are reading them. They’re encyclopedia references of evidence for people who are already intimately familiar with the biography of the Prophet(saw). A lot of times you’re not reading the full reference. Bukhari might just cut a part of a larger hadith about a divorce for example and just quote the part where the Prophet(saw) made wudu (ritual washing before prayer) and stick that in the Wudu chapter.

        Anyways back to Imam An Nawwawi’s Riyad, all of his ahadith in there are good (barring only one off the top of my head) and he copied this hadith from Bukhari and Muslim for his work. It even says that at the bottom of the link you provided. It also appears in his famous 40 hadith Qudsi. So yes it is VERY Sahih and taught to basically every Muslim.

        Also, I think everyone should take a screenshot as this is the nicest thing you’ve ever said about Islam and…

        2. +200 years later?

        Sigh, no. Keeping this short, hadith didn’t just show up 200+ years later out of nowhere. Know that anybody who says this knows nothing about hadith compilation. We have multiple early hadith collections that you can compare to Bukhari. A common mistake people make is Imam Bukhar(rh) grabbed a bunch of oral traditions in circulation and started grading. Most of his work is codifying earlier books (and yes we still have some)

        3. Bible earlier, blah, blah, blah

        For one irrelevant to the discussion. You were simply being given the context of Abu Bakr’s(ra) statement. Also, time is not a factor as it comes form the same source. Notice you quote the New Testament AND the Hebrew Bible. No one says “Oh you’re too late” the message is for the most part always the same.

        4. Still, this is much more emphasized in the Bible (OT and NT)

        As someone who has read both, not really?

        5. ” seems to have added this emphasis on motives / intentions later, because the Qur’an itself is mainly about external societal laws and rituals.”

        For one this doesn’t even make sense as the law comes after softening the heart. Do you think Prophet Muhammad(saw) was just preaching law to people all day and they were converting? Also, there were basically NO LAWS in the first 13 years of Islam (i.e. more than 50% of the Qur’an’s time of revelation) barring some small ones like no worshipping idols. Second, we have always held the position that there are two sources of legislation in our religion. Finally, I can give you TONS of references similar to this from the Qur’an alone. However let’s pretend I couldn’t, a more “fair” way I could argue is using only YHWH in the Bible do the same thing and you’ll notice most your references go up in smoke.

        6. “you have to go to Hadith (collections 200 years later) and books on Sufism”

        See point 2. And again no I gave you like 5 books on the subject and NONE of those authors were Sufis.

        Liked by 2 people

      • But the Riyad hadith does not link to the Sahih Muslim or Sahih Al Bukhari – Yasir Qadhi said it is in both of them. Where is the link to those?

        Like

      • @ Ken

        Don’t even know you so I can’t take anything personally. I even still think you’re human just a bad one.

        Like

      • @ Ken

        Here is Muslim (1905):

        https://sunnah.com/muslim/33

        Also An Nasai:

        https://sunnah.com/nasai/25/53

        As I said, this is a well-known hadith and would be equivalent to me asking you does the Bible say:

        “As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil…”

        Liked by 1 person

      • Thanks for the reference. So Yasir Qadhi was wrong to also say it is in Sahih Al Bukhari, right?

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Ken

        No idea I would have to look more because it was a pain finding it in Muslim. So I won’t say Qadhi was incorrect but I personally couldn’t find it in my search.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Thanks.
        Ok, so if it was a pain to find it in Sahih Muslim, then it is not as well known as the verse you quoted from Psalm 23.

        And then there is the whole “Qur’an only” movement. And there is a big tendency in Islam to just trust the “scholars” of Islam on Hadith sciences, etc. Most Muslims don’t even know or read the Hadith collections and other Sunna embedded in other works – Sira, Tafsir, Tarikh, Ijtima, etc. – it is too complicated for the average person.

        Like

      • @ Ken

        A hadith can be known and the reference not be. This is actually pretty common. The reason it was a pain as I couldn’t find it where I thought it would be if you check the chapter it was in, it lied in government.

        As for “Quran only” nobody cares as there disbelievers and the reason they have no scholarship is because it really is only uneducated people who know nothing. All these heretics are minorities.

        As for your last points, I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again, hadith collections were made as references for scholars, not the laymen that’s probably why you find them confusing. Again in raw essence, a hadith is a “snapshot” of the Prophet’s(saw) life codified into a corresponding place for evidence. So imagine (and I’m completely making this up) if the Prophet(saw) prayed while walking with someone. The hadith in Bukhari would simply “clip” the irrelevant part and just mention the prayer he made so that when discussing the prayer we have what he(saw) did.

        As for the rest, most of those are pretty easy I think it’s complicated to you because of its Arabic terminology.

        Finally, one trust hadith scholars because this is their specialization in school. It’s the equivalent of saying “I don’t trust those who make Koine Greek lexicons for the NT.” Hadith scholars like scholars of Jurisprudence have select “rules” to play in. If one is learned in the field you can check back on the argument being presented on a grading. A scholar’s job is to protect the religion a layman’s ignorance is not their fault nor should they have to pander to the lowest common denominator amongst Muslims. If one feels some type of way go to school and get training. Nobody has a monopoly on knowledge.

        Liked by 2 people

      • @ Mr. Heathcliff

        “… why is it that the arguments you use against islam the jews use against jesus”

        Because they’re both disbelievers?

        Liked by 1 person

      • “… why is it that the arguments you use against islam the jews use against jesus”

        Because they’re both disbelievers?////

        well here is the link again.

        https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/messiahtruth/many-christians-think-jesus-said-something-new-whe-t6736.html?sid=ca934e317f35bd0db8243882e084eed6

        my question is really to the man worshipping christian , ken temple. do the jews reject your jesus because his teachings are hundreds and hundreds of years after torah ?

        just go to the link temple and read for yourself that the arguments you used against islam, they give it good to your nt. why is that temple ?

        Like

      • https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/e0ky9m/marks_sources/?st=k3cu1c2t&sh=7897eed2

        ken, why is it that christian scholarship does not know if the debates between jesus and the jews were real?

        why does your nt misrepresent the pharisees?

        why does christian scholarship say that mark is dependant on the ot?

        when will you go to academic biblical and challenge the views of christian scholarship?

        Like

    • God knows what’s in everyone’s heart.

      Agreed. He knows your sinful anger and hatred.

      Matthew 5:21-26

      Liked by 1 person

      • “the key word is “mainly”, and in order to get emphasis on the heart and motives, you have to go to Hadith (collections 200 years later) and books on Sufism”

        you honestly are a bum.

        you just need to look at arabic dictionary for word choice in quran and see what a lying piece of scum u are . the stories it relates and HOW it relates has gravitational PULL to the heart.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Ken

        Actually, I haven’t engaged in “sinful anger”. I don’t go “how can you insult ME” nor is my irritation brought about because of personal reasons, I am angry SOLELY because you are transgressing against God’s rights, insulting what He has sent down and legislated to mankind

        Liked by 1 person

      • But if the NT is true, then you are wrong and Islam is a false religion.
        And because the NT is True and earlier, and established; therefore you are wrong.

        Like

      • Kennywise and his circular arguments…yaaawn.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Ken

        Still doesn’t negate what I said. I am not angry because of a personal insult you’ve given to me, I am angry for God’s sake.

        Finally again being earlier is not proof otherwise your false to Judaism.

        Like

      • It seems to me you are sinfully angry as it comes out in personal insults – “he is a piece of sh . . . “, etc.

        Christian morality is superior because we can have zeal for God and anger at the sin of the person, but still viewing the human as created in the image of God and not taking it personally.

        Like

  29. Ken temple is making $$$$$ for every post since 2011

    i think ken should give williams $$$$$$ for allowing him to make money on his blog

    Liked by 2 people

  30. “He also has a day job at Propempo International training missionaries for the Muslim world. Notice where the arrow points – to the heart of Muslim North Afric”

    most likely these kuffar would probably target people on the atlas mountains. muslims are a sleep, counter missionary organisations must be created in muslim lands

    Liked by 1 person

  31. “Jesus and the OT and the NT taught about the motives and showing off 600- 800 years earlier, and OT around 3000 years earlier than Islam.”

    scum bag missionary, budda predates jesus . There were philosophers who paul the pagan praises. gesus thought that GENTILES could not PRODUCE any good fruit because of his filthy ETHNOCENTRIC views

    here is how the jews slam gesus

    “Trusting in god”

    Trusting in God means first and foremost not claiming to be God yourself and not claiming to be sinless

    The underlying theme of the book of Matthew (and Christianity as a whole) is the exaltation of Jesus and the emphasis of humanity’s “need” for Jesus. The author of the book of Matthew presents the Sermon on the Mount not so much as a teaching on how to live a moral life but as an argument for the superiority of Jesus. Immediately after the Sermon (Matthew7:28,29) the author tells us how the crowds were amazed at the teaching; not because of the beauty of the truths they contained, but because Jesus spoke with incomparable “authority”. Key segments of the Sermon are introduced with the phrase: “You have heard that it was said to them of old time” and contrasted with “But I (Jesus) say to you”. This literary device accentuates the fictitious notion that Jesus is the originator of these universal truths and that they were unknown to mankind until Jesus uttered them to his audience.

    But this is false. These universal principles of justice and charity were planted by the Creator into the heart of every man and woman; they belong to all of us. Every one of us is sensitive to an injustice that we suffer at the hands of another. We are all acutely aware that injustice is wrong and evil when we find ourselves at the receiving end of an injustice. This is the guide that our Creator gave us all to teach us these universal principles. Every civilization has produced individuals who have brought greater clarity to these universal principles through the lives they lived and through the words they uttered. Clarifying and articulating these universal principles is good and Godly; falsely claiming to be the originator of these universal principles is not.

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  32. IF ALLAH NEVER REVEALED EVEN ONE TEACHING ABOUT THE HEART WE WILL NEVER PROSTITUTE OUR HEARTS TO A POOPING jew . DONT U SEE THAT YOUR IDOLATRY DISGUSTS US AND HAD U BEEN UNDER MOSAIC LAW moses WOULD HAVE STONED U TO DEATH?

    Liked by 2 people

  33. “is superior because we can have zeal for God and anger at the sin of the person, but still viewing the human as created in the image of God”

    what is wrong with hating hitler and wife beaters ? why shouldn’t the hijabi woman who was recently beaten up hate that son of a bitch who beat her violently ? it wasn’t his punches which had a life of their own, it was his conscious person . hate is neccessary even torah calls the jews to hate idol worshippers like you. NOT ALL hate is bad . loving the person is not “superior” it is nonsence and HYPOCRITICAL because you are just DECEIVING yourself when in reality you hate the person and FOOL yourself into thinking you hate his actions.

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  34. god so loved the world that he sent the pharisees, that whosoever obeys them shall have eternal life :

    2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you.

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  35. crosstians are a bunch of slaves

    https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/e34hs4/does_the_greek_word_for_slave_in_the_nt_doulos/?st=k3ka3pd2&sh=890f0512

    so when you hear a crosstian say a muslim = “abdul”

    crostians are a bunch of doulos’

    Liked by 1 person

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