Haha, you’re like one of those pathetic losers who cries in front of everyone, then pretends that it was because there was something in your eye. 🤣🤣🤣
I wish you the best in your career as a professional clown in the circus.
I also wish you to take your pretentious religion and smoke it in your clownpipe.
And I also wish you better spelling skills (loose vs lose). You seem to have trouble with that.
And finally, I hope your brain survives the rotting effect of Christianity so that you escape the brainwashing of your church and become a true monotheist. Leave your paganism. There can be no peace in man-worship.
Alright, guys let’s look neutrally at the “inter-textuality” of the NT and Hebrew Bible:
Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” (John 7:38)
Key:
“rivers of living water will flow from within them” (?:?)
Ken’s personal fanfic quotes of what it actually said:
“For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.” (Isaiah 44:3)
You don’t see the connection between the water and the Holy Spirit ?
Granted this verse is pointing to a combination of many verses and a lot of theology in the Old Testament the theology that God said to Israel if you repent and return to me I will quench your thirst spiritual thirst and I will give you a new heart my spirit and so all of those teachings together constitute the verse in John 7:37 to 39 .
Most of the time of all the quotes and illusions to in the New Testament ( Of the ot) they are full quotes and very clear.
this is one of the few that uses a combination of many concepts from the old testament .
Definitely not related.
Yes it is. As with all the other versus combined together John seven versus 37 to 39 is summing up a lot of the ologies and teaching in the Old Testament.
“Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost. (Isaiah 55:1)
Part of the verse before but the end is completely different:
“I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.” (Ezekiel 36:26-27)
John 7:39- this he spoke of the spirit whom everyone who believes in him will receive but the spirit had not been given yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified .
“So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who relies on it will never be stricken with panic.” (Isaiah 28:16)
Relies = believes in, trusts
No.
Yes.
Now in a twist of irony, Ken made the claim Prophet Muhammad(saw) was just quoting things he heard . . .
This is true.
you have no full quotes of verses.
we have thousands of full quotes of verses all through the New Testament and many allusions also phrases .
All you have is :
Injeel
Al Masih
Virgin born
Kalimat’Allah ( word of God)
The previous scriptures are confirmed and verified
Jesus is the son of Mary
Jesus did many miracles and thought the truth
The gospel and the Torah both our guidance and light as is the Zobur of David
The mention of Adam and Eve and Noah and Moses and Abraham and David and Solomon and Job and Isaac and Ishmael and Jacob and Joseph and Jesus and John the Baptist ( but lots of mistakes in details).
God is One.
No, I take it as later people trying to insert things into what the text says to save from embarrassment. The text naturally reads as its quoted “rivers of living water will flow from within them” this does not exist, you know it and I know it so let’s not pretend otherwise. If you accept this quoting then my contention of the Psalms saying the Messiah will be lifted and saved is 10 times stronger.
Yes the NT authors SOMETIMES quote correctly but as of the time of this post we have 4 misquotes (also as a note you do not have “thousands” of verses it’s basically the same passages being misquoted.) Simply putting two texts that say “water” and “pour” isn’t impressing anyone nor is it “amazing inter-textuality” its forcing things that aren’t there and anyone can do this with anything.
Next, the Quran does quote such as:
“The meek shall inherit the earth” (21:105)
And
“Uncircumcised hearts” (4:155)
As well as other references like the Covenant, baptism, etc. Its weird you read the Quran and understood the context but didn’t know that. We also have allusions as well, but as I said before, we just don’t beat the reader over the head with it out of desperation to “prove” something.
Finally, I agree God is one and wish you truly understood that and stopped listening to heretics that went to the extreme in venerating the righteous and divided Him into 3 gods under the guise of monotheism.
ken temple has failed to address the problem that nt writers CREATED a walking, breathing and eating CREATURE and born of a woman into OTHER than human being.
i will let the jewish people finnish off ken temple, i quote :
You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars–all the heavenly array–do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.
Your gospel texts confirm that I have the right reading of Deuteronomy 4 because when the beast of revelation comes seeking worship as a man claiming to be a god sitting in the temple, your book tells you to ignore such a one at the cost of your very life.
Ergo, you have a double standard, special pleading, and cognitive dissonance that you are applying unconsciously only in the case of the Nazarene.
I say the Bible teaches unilaterally not to pray to or pay homage to anything that looks like a human being.
You would say the same, but you make an exception for Jesus.
However, I do not even see a physical Nazarene anywhere on planet earth at the moment do you?
You say he is in heaven!
Meanwhile, I see images, sects, and pop culture images everywhere!
So, in the here and now, what is it in terms of actual divine service that you are advocating?
Christian services.
You would love people to go to a Church on Sunday, or Saturday and look at a wooden image of a man on a cross, and hear the stories, hoping that they be reminded and associate this image and various prophetic texts with Yeshua who died 2,000 years ago.
The verses I gave you just above would completely contradict this kind of religious service in form if not functionally as foreign to the covenant.
You never met Jesus, neither did I, we only heard the stories from pastors and family. Based on these stories, we went to Church, where we saw crosses or Crucifixes, and they said “Jesus died for you” pointing to that image!
Imagine if instead of a golden calf, Israel had made a golden Moses.
Based off of their memories of him, they teach the people.
Imagine that while Moses is on the mountain, the people of Israel are telling stories of his mighty works and setting up communities. People go to large temples and gaze at the Golden Moses behind the pulpit and they are healed from all matter of diseases. They sing songs about Moses, they celebrate his birth, his miraculous escape from Egyot, and they await the day he will return.
Now, imagine that he is on the mountain for 1,000 years. Everyone who knew him while he was on earth has died. Are you telling me that he would recognize a damn thing when he comes down with the tablets of the law?
I submit to you, that this is the only kind of service you could ever be advocating for concerning Jesus, because that kind of service is all the gospels have to offer.
Even OT (Tanakh) is more than just the “T”; the Nabi’im and Ketovim are also true, with lots of prophesies of the Al Masih, His atoning death, resurrection, 2nd coming, etc.
No, it just proves that you are idiots who desperately misquote true scripture to justify your pathetic devotion to a pagan cult. It’s amazing what lengths you idiots go to keep telling yourself that worshiping a man like a heretic pagan is perfectly reasonable. 😲
Nope.
We are the true Monotheists.
Trinitarian Monotheism is the truth from all eternity past.
God is love.
The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The One True God.
2 Corinthians 13:14
Matthew 28:19
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, [the Son] and the love of God [The Father], and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
2 Corinthians 13:14
😂😂😂 “We are the true monotheists” he says! More like the true monkeys! 🤣
Meanwhile, the Shema said nothing about this trinity monkey-business. Oh but I know, what you’re going to say. “Progressive Revelation” and other nonsense. You would make a good insurance agent, like those guys on the Progressive insurance commercials.
Hahaha, Kennywise got stuck and had to deflect again! You loose…I mean lose again Kennywise. Even your corrupt Bible says no to your trinity monkey-business. Ouch!
Nothing (no principle or law or rule of logic or reason) says that all three persons of the doctrine of the Trinity are required to be mentioned in every verse.
Since we have many passages that DO mention all three persons.
Zechariah 12:10
“I [Yahweh, the Father] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced [The Son]; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
with Zechariah 12:4 – Yahweh speaking, declaring
Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 13:14
Matthew 3:13-17 (Jesus the Son being baptised; the voice of the Father from heaven; and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.)
1 Peter 1:1-2
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
Ephesians 4:4-6
😂🤣😂 Kennywise again got nuked and comes up with a pathetic excuse for why his trinity monkey-business is not consistently taught!
And then misquotes a verse where he then tries to anachronistically force his pagan trinity by using parentheses! Apparently, the poor clown felt the previous excuse wasn’t good enough.
Let’s see the very next chapter after Zechariah 12 to see the actual context:
“On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the Lord Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land. 3 And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the Lord’s name.’ Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies.”
Well lookie here! The context refers to sometime in the past when Israel had rejected God and worshiped idols. That is the context of the phrase “the one they have pierced”. It’s not a reference to some pagan trinity. Try again Kennywise. You loose again…I mean lose…
Actually, the whole passage points to the future and a fountain of cleansing (Zech. 13:1) – the cleansing of forgiveness through His atonement death, and faith in Him results in cleansing / washing in the soul – also in harmony with John 7:37-39. In the New Covenant, God will cleanse them of their idolatry – Ezekiel 36:25-27.
Actually, the passage talks about cleaning Israel of its idolatry. It has nothing to do with your pagan trinity. Stop lying and spreading your satanic propaganda.
The future it talks about is now in the past. Israel’s idolatry was cleansed.
You already got nuked on Zechariah. Now you jump to Ezekiel, which only makes things worse. Ezekiel contradicts the fundamentals of Christianity by prophesying a future temple where the temple rituals and the Mosaic law will be reinstated. This refutes Christianity as a false religion. Boom!
The NT book of Hebrews indicates that there will not be a future temple with animal sacrifices.
The Second Temple built and enhanced over the centuries, after the return from Exile (Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah) especially during Herod’s reign, was an attempt to restore the glories of the original Solomonic Temple.
But Jesus clearly judged the temple in 70 AD and said He is the ultimate fulfillment of the temple – John 2:19-22
Then the NT book of Hebrews is wrong dummy. That you for proving my point. The NT contradicts the Tanakh and Christianity is false. Your religion can hundreds of years too late.
Nope; Jesus is the fulfillment. John 2:19-22
He is the glory of God that returned. John 1:14
He and the Holy Spirit are the living waters flowing for the healing of the nations. (John 4:14; 7:37-39; Revelation 22:1-2 (fulfillments of Ezekiel 47:1; 47:12) and Rev. 21:3 is fulfillment of Ezekiel 48:35.
These were “visions of God” – symbolic – Ezekiel 1:1; 8:3; 11:24; 40:2; 43:3
Nope, the NT is just wrong. It came too late. Ezekiel promises the physical rebuilding of the temple with specific details and even says that the uncircumcised cannot enter the temple. All this contradicts Christianity. Ezekiel buries Christianity. RIP.
Nope, it was a literal building obviously. The temple is supposed to be rebuilt which is why so much detail is given about its dimensions. Unless your mangod was supposed to have such dimensions, he cannot be that temple.
The building facing the temple courtyard on the west side was seventy cubits[i] wide. The wall of the building was five cubits thick all around, and its length was ninety cubits.[j]
13 Then he measured the temple; it was a hundred cubits[k] long, and the temple courtyard and the building with its walls were also a hundred cubits long. 14 The width of the temple courtyard on the east, including the front of the temple, was a hundred cubits.
15 Then he measured the length of the building facing the courtyard at the rear of the temple, including its galleries on each side; it was a hundred cubits.
Ezekiel on some of the measurements of the temple. He clearly had a building in mind, not some symbolic mangod temple.
The main hall had a rectangular doorframe, and the one at the front of the Most Holy Place was similar. 22 There was a wooden altar three cubits[l] high and two cubits square[m]; its corners, its base[n] and its sides were of wood. The man said to me, “This is the table that is before the Lord.” 23 Both the main hall and the Most Holy Place had double doors. 24 Each door had two leaves—two hinged leaves for each door. 25 And on the doors of the main hall were carved cherubim and palm trees like those carved on the walls, and there was a wooden overhang on the front of the portico. 26 On the sidewalls of the portico were narrow windows with palm trees carved on each side. The side rooms of the temple also had overhangs.
– More minute details. There is no way this is merely a “symbol” of some crucified mangod. You’d have to be an idiot to think that.
No, the NT book of Hebrews is a heretical book written by a scoundrel who will burn in hell for his lies. It came hundreds of years too late after the Tanakh and proves your false religion is a lie.
I will take my God-given reason over your late forgeries and late word and empty clownish argumentation/propaganda.
ken, even your kafir heart aknowledges that christianity stole the attributes belonging to the father and gave them to jeeesis. if anything nt writers were THieves in the sense that their idolatrous hearts were imedpressed by a Body and they made that body into something else like roman catholics.
think about it temple, luke, mark and mat never identify jesus as a spirit, but the pagan kafir john is the only gospel which tries to give pre-existence to jeezer, this gives kafir like u to force john into all three and make that spirit in john identical to yhwh even thougg the mushrik john never did
ken kafir like u love imagining almighty as a whining baby and one who plops….
you fuse your love for the visible with the invisible. You call people to your spiritual homosexual faggotory. you tell people to put their love for spirits, demons, flesh and bone. But you will always fail . Islam BOWLED the shit out of your religion and posponed those “prophecies” in your bibles lol we know you are jealous and hurt like pagans of mecca
“But one of the soldiers had pierced His side with a spear, and immediately water and blood had come out….And …scripture says, ‘They shall look upon HIM Whom they pierced’ ” (John 19:34, 37)
What it actually says:
…They will look on ME, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for HIM as one mourns for an only child…
(Zechariah 12:10)
Notice “John” changed the pronoun. There was a reason for that because God is the “Me”, and the “him” in the verse is referring to a different person. Zechariah has NOTHING to do with the Messiah being crucified. SO much “inspiration” going on here, as I said before like ALL heretics they were looking for anything to prove their false doctrine and heard vague things they weren’t familiar with and jammed them together.
Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).
The entire verse, along with Zechariah 9:9 (Jesus’ humility riding on a donkey); Zechariah 13:7 – The Shepherd who is My associate / my equal / the one who stands next to Me (as in Psalm 110:1 and 2:2-7 – “against the Lord and His Messiah”, etc. – it all points to the confirmation of the Deity of Christ, the Incarnation, the Trinity, the death and atonement on the cross, etc. = fulfillment of prophecy.
ken temple really believes like a pagan kafir that zechariah thought that.the people would pierce zacherias god? These peoples hearts are steeped in paganism, he (temple) just cant avoid imagining yhwh with testicle
“says that all three persons of the doctrine of the Trinity are required to be mentioned in every verse.”
so how do you know which one is which? What if you confuse the two of them or three of them for the same person? So lets go to ot, who is the son and how do u know it isnt the father?
“I [Yahweh, the Father] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced [The Son]; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.”
ken temple, are you okay?
you identified persons of the trinity.
“me” “i” “him”
“as one mourns for an only son” is telling you about experiences and you are making a PERSON out of experiences ?
“Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).”
which god is pierced yhwh the nature or yhwh the person and why are you IMAGINING yhwh the person as yhwh the MAN, EXISTING AS A MAN
“Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).”
Kafir pagan steeped with imaging yhwh as a man thinks zecharia made distinction like trinitarians do today.
u said zecharias thinks yhwh Was pierced so he thought yhwh was EXISTING AS A MAN?
Are you insane? The text says “him who they pierced” that means God is not the one being pierced and it is a misquote. This has nothing to do with your later developed doctrines. How are you going to claim to believe in a text and then completely ignore what it says?
Ken fits the definition of a Kafir right down to the r. An individual who knows the truth and yet denies it. At least Shamounnis crazy so he cannot distinguish between truth and falsehood. What’s your excuse for being a Kafir, Ken?
Jesus predicted / prophesied of the destruction of the 2nd temple (Ezra to Herod, future to when the book of Ezekiel was written – so the details may be what Herod’s temple expansion was for 40 years.)
Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple and pointed people back to Daniel 9:26.
Matthew 23:36-24:3; 24:15
Baloney. Ezekiel refers to an apocalyptic future after the battle of Gog and Magog. Stop your lying.
After all the tribulations, the temple is supposed to be rebuilt. So either Ezekiel has a false prophecy, which would refute Christianity, or it contradicts the NT, which also would refute Christianity. RIP.
It can’t be referring to that because it talks about the battle of Gog and Magog before the rebuilding. That didn’t happen in Ezra’s time. So it’s a false prophecy. Christianity loses the battle with cancer. RIP.
“Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).”
look , i will speak with easy to understand english
yhwh EXISTED AS A MAN, YES or no?
yhwh CREATED himself as a man, yes or no?
yhwh HID in a body, but did not exist as a man?
you have the following :
divine nature exists
son exists
father exists
ghost exists
and yhwh the man exists
NONE OF these are IDENTICAL to each other.
so tell me, when yhwh the man died, was it yhwh the son or was yhwh the son WATCHING yhwh the man dying?
What makes you think zecharia thought that yhwh was watching himself die?
“ken temple really believes like a pagan kafir that zechariah thought that.the people would pierce zacherias god? These peoples hearts are steeped in paganism, he (temple) just cant avoid imagining yhwh with testicle”
this is not and obsession, this is a contemplation.
mr kafir temple, can you tell me why ezekiel would give details about temple rebuilding ?
//////
muhammadkaram, wa’alaykum a’salam! Welcome to our forums and thank you for your question. Let me respond specifically to your question. Let’s start with a good translation of the relevant passage –
Ezekiel 43:10-12(JPT) – 10. You, Son of man, describe the House to the House of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; let them measure its plan. 11. And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, let them know the form of the House and its scheme, its exits and its entrances, and all its forms, and all its laws and all its teachings, and write it down in their sight so that they keep the whole form thereof and the laws thereof, and do them. 12. This is the teaching of the House; Upon the top of the mountain, all its boundary round about shall be most holy; behold, this is the teaching of the House.
First an overview. This passage, Ezekiel 43:10-12 is a command by God to Ezekiel in which he is commanded to reveal to Israel the plan of the future Temple, explain it to them in detail, and acquaint them with the use to which all its sections were to be put. In the passage I placed several relevant phrases in fuchsia bold font, and will elaborate on them next.
that they may be ashamed of their iniquities (verse 10) – The plan of the future Temple will recall the loss of the former Temple, which was brought about due to their sins, and induce in them a feeling of remorse and contrition.
if they are ashamed of all that they have done, let them know the form of the House and its scheme (Verse 11) – IF the plan moves them to shame and remorse for their past sins, THEN the prophet must give them a detailed account of it and they will be found worthy of envisioning the new Temple.
So this is an “IF … THEN …” conditional command from God to Ezekiel on whether to reveal the details of the future Temple (the one to be built by the promised Jewish King Messiah) to the people. IF they repent from the past sins that caused the destruction of the previous (First) Temple by the Babylonians, THEN Ezekiel must reveal to them the details of the future Temple. This has nothing to do with any prophecies being “canceled” by God. In fact, quite the opposite is true. All the details and rituals of the future Temple are described in the last nine chapters of the Book of Ezekiel – Ezekiel 40-48, first as a vision the prophet had, and later all the details are recorded there, which means that the people repented from the sins that caused the destruction of the First Temple.
Isn’t it amazing how the missionaries change and twist the actual message of a passage in order to justify their false claims?
Ezekiel wrote his book during the exile around 592-570 BC.
After the exile, under Ezra, they started to rebuild the temple. 536 BC onward.
Herod later expanded the temple and make it pretty great. around 14-10 BC to 26 to 30 AD.
The details of the physical building were in the attempts to rebuild the temple from Ezra’s time to Herod’s temple.
This (Ezra and Herod’s second temple) was future to Ezekiel’s vision.
Then Jesus said He is the fulfillment of the temple and the glory of God returning. (the glory of God left the temple in Ezekiel chapters 8-11 and was prophesied to return, and it did return in Jesus.)
So Christianity is still false. Either the book makes a false prophecy, or it contradicts the NT. Either way, it buries Christianity. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust. RIP.
Ezekiel mentions the battle with Gog and Magog. This never happened in that time or in the time of Ezra. So this is a false prophecy. Or it refers to a future event that the author hoped would happen. That contradicts Christianity.
Ezekiel mentions Gog and Magog. Your book of Revelation came hundreds of years too late. So Ezekiel still buries your religion. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust.
“the glory of God left the temple in Ezekiel chapters 8-11 and was prophesied to return, and it did return in Jesus.”
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
14 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 15 Mortal, your kinsfolk, your own kin, your fellow exiles,[a] the whole house of Israel, all of them, are those of whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, “They have gone far from the Lord; to us this land is given for a possession.” 16 Therefore say: Thus says the Lord God: Though I removed them far away among the nations, and though I scattered them among the countries, yet I have been a sanctuary to them for a little while[b] in the countries where they have gone. 17 Therefore say: Thus says the Lord God: I will gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 When they come there, they will remove from it all its detestable things and all its abominations. 19 I will give them one[c] heart, and put a new spirit within them; I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 so that they may follow my statutes and keep my ordinances and obey them. Then they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for those whose heart goes after their detestable things and their abominations,[d] I will bring their deeds upon their own heads, says the Lord God.
22 Then the cherubim lifted up their wings, with the wheels beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was above them. 23 And the glory of the Lord ascended from the middle of the city, and stopped on the mountain east of the city. 24 The spirit lifted me up and brought me in a vision by the spirit of God into Chaldea, to the exiles. Then the vision that I had seen left me. 25 And I told the exiles all the things that the Lord had shown me.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
tell me when any of this happened in jesus’ life time? this is AFTER the chapter you quoted.
can you tell me the reason why the old testament and jewish writings pre-jesus predicted the fall of the temple? what was their reasons?
More proof from Ezekiel that destroys Christianity:
““‘After the seven months they will carry out a more detailed search. 15 As they go through the land, anyone who sees a human bone will leave a marker beside it until the gravediggers bury it in the Valley of Hamon Gog, 16 near a town called Hamonah.[c] And so they will cleanse the land.’”
17 “Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19 At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20 At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,’ declares the Sovereign Lord.
“25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob[d] and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28 Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”” (Ezekiel 39)
So after the destruction of Gog and Magog, and the burial of their soldiers, and a massive feast by scavengers on the remaining bodies, God will restore Israel. None of this happened in the time of Ezra. Therefore, if Kennywise’s interpretation is followed, it was a false prophecy. Christianity has been stricken and cannot survive. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust. RIP.
Your character is revealed in exposed for all to see .
Ha ha
And your whining and inability to refute me, or anyone else, are exposed for all to see. Hahahaha.
I have never whined at all.
ha ha you loose the argument.
But I still wish you the best .
I wish you peace .
I hope you find peace and rest for your soul .
Haha, you’re like one of those pathetic losers who cries in front of everyone, then pretends that it was because there was something in your eye. 🤣🤣🤣
I wish you the best in your career as a professional clown in the circus.
I also wish you to take your pretentious religion and smoke it in your clownpipe.
And I also wish you better spelling skills (loose vs lose). You seem to have trouble with that.
And finally, I hope your brain survives the rotting effect of Christianity so that you escape the brainwashing of your church and become a true monotheist. Leave your paganism. There can be no peace in man-worship.
Alright, guys let’s look neutrally at the “inter-textuality” of the NT and Hebrew Bible:
Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” (John 7:38)
Key:
“rivers of living water will flow from within them” (?:?)
Ken’s personal fanfic quotes of what it actually said:
“For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.” (Isaiah 44:3)
You don’t see the connection between the water and the Holy Spirit ?
Granted this verse is pointing to a combination of many verses and a lot of theology in the Old Testament the theology that God said to Israel if you repent and return to me I will quench your thirst spiritual thirst and I will give you a new heart my spirit and so all of those teachings together constitute the verse in John 7:37 to 39 .
Most of the time of all the quotes and illusions to in the New Testament ( Of the ot) they are full quotes and very clear.
this is one of the few that uses a combination of many concepts from the old testament .
Definitely not related.
Yes it is. As with all the other versus combined together John seven versus 37 to 39 is summing up a lot of the ologies and teaching in the Old Testament.
“Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost. (Isaiah 55:1)
Part of the verse before but the end is completely different:
“I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.” (Ezekiel 36:26-27)
John 7:39- this he spoke of the spirit whom everyone who believes in him will receive but the spirit had not been given yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified .
“So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who relies on it will never be stricken with panic.” (Isaiah 28:16)
Relies = believes in, trusts
No.
Yes.
Now in a twist of irony, Ken made the claim Prophet Muhammad(saw) was just quoting things he heard . . .
This is true.
you have no full quotes of verses.
we have thousands of full quotes of verses all through the New Testament and many allusions also phrases .
All you have is :
Injeel
Al Masih
Virgin born
Kalimat’Allah ( word of God)
The previous scriptures are confirmed and verified
Jesus is the son of Mary
Jesus did many miracles and thought the truth
The gospel and the Torah both our guidance and light as is the Zobur of David
The mention of Adam and Eve and Noah and Moses and Abraham and David and Solomon and Job and Isaac and Ishmael and Jacob and Joseph and Jesus and John the Baptist ( but lots of mistakes in details).
God is One.
Sorry the italic function did not work to offset my words from Stewjo ‘s words
@ Ken
No, I take it as later people trying to insert things into what the text says to save from embarrassment. The text naturally reads as its quoted “rivers of living water will flow from within them” this does not exist, you know it and I know it so let’s not pretend otherwise. If you accept this quoting then my contention of the Psalms saying the Messiah will be lifted and saved is 10 times stronger.
Yes the NT authors SOMETIMES quote correctly but as of the time of this post we have 4 misquotes (also as a note you do not have “thousands” of verses it’s basically the same passages being misquoted.) Simply putting two texts that say “water” and “pour” isn’t impressing anyone nor is it “amazing inter-textuality” its forcing things that aren’t there and anyone can do this with anything.
Next, the Quran does quote such as:
“The meek shall inherit the earth” (21:105)
And
“Uncircumcised hearts” (4:155)
As well as other references like the Covenant, baptism, etc. Its weird you read the Quran and understood the context but didn’t know that. We also have allusions as well, but as I said before, we just don’t beat the reader over the head with it out of desperation to “prove” something.
Finally, I agree God is one and wish you truly understood that and stopped listening to heretics that went to the extreme in venerating the righteous and divided Him into 3 gods under the guise of monotheism.
“Problem is the new testament demonstrates that Jesus is eternal that he is the word of God from all eternity past”
then the nt is of pagan origin since it made a fully human dependant being into something other than human
we can ask, did yhwh in torah Ever say that he lacks knowledge and is COMMANDED what to say?
the people who made a man born of a woman are doomed to hell like the pagans.
Boom! Kennywise’s paganism is exposed for all to see!
The fact that the Quran calls Jesus the word of God
Kalimat’Allah
کلمه الله
And a Spirit from Allah
روح من الله
proves that we are right .
ken temple has failed to address the problem that nt writers CREATED a walking, breathing and eating CREATURE and born of a woman into OTHER than human being.
i will let the jewish people finnish off ken temple, i quote :
You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars–all the heavenly array–do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.
Your gospel texts confirm that I have the right reading of Deuteronomy 4 because when the beast of revelation comes seeking worship as a man claiming to be a god sitting in the temple, your book tells you to ignore such a one at the cost of your very life.
Ergo, you have a double standard, special pleading, and cognitive dissonance that you are applying unconsciously only in the case of the Nazarene.
I say the Bible teaches unilaterally not to pray to or pay homage to anything that looks like a human being.
You would say the same, but you make an exception for Jesus.
However, I do not even see a physical Nazarene anywhere on planet earth at the moment do you?
You say he is in heaven!
Meanwhile, I see images, sects, and pop culture images everywhere!
So, in the here and now, what is it in terms of actual divine service that you are advocating?
Christian services.
You would love people to go to a Church on Sunday, or Saturday and look at a wooden image of a man on a cross, and hear the stories, hoping that they be reminded and associate this image and various prophetic texts with Yeshua who died 2,000 years ago.
The verses I gave you just above would completely contradict this kind of religious service in form if not functionally as foreign to the covenant.
You never met Jesus, neither did I, we only heard the stories from pastors and family. Based on these stories, we went to Church, where we saw crosses or Crucifixes, and they said “Jesus died for you” pointing to that image!
Imagine if instead of a golden calf, Israel had made a golden Moses.
Based off of their memories of him, they teach the people.
Imagine that while Moses is on the mountain, the people of Israel are telling stories of his mighty works and setting up communities. People go to large temples and gaze at the Golden Moses behind the pulpit and they are healed from all matter of diseases. They sing songs about Moses, they celebrate his birth, his miraculous escape from Egyot, and they await the day he will return.
Now, imagine that he is on the mountain for 1,000 years. Everyone who knew him while he was on earth has died. Are you telling me that he would recognize a damn thing when he comes down with the tablets of the law?
I submit to you, that this is the only kind of service you could ever be advocating for concerning Jesus, because that kind of service is all the gospels have to offer.
Boom! The nuking of Kennywise continues unabated!
ken temple , throw the terms all you want, you are an idolater kafir who is doomed in eyes of torah.
Nope.
you lose.
Even OT (Tanakh) is more than just the “T”; the Nabi’im and Ketovim are also true, with lots of prophesies of the Al Masih, His atoning death, resurrection, 2nd coming, etc.
He spelled correctly! See, there is hope for you yet Kennywise.
Even the rest of the Tanakh disproves your silly man-cult. You loose…I mean lose. Dang it. Now you’re making me do it.
why did you stop posting ken?
where did u go ken?
He went in the closet to cry.
I was busy on long-distance phone calls and work; teaching, etc.
Who were you teaching? Monkeys?
former Muslims!
Ha Ha
They have seen the light.
former Muslims!
Ha Ha
They have seen the light.”
So you are teaching monkeys, then? Intellectually damaged monkeys?
Ha ha, for every “former Muslim”, there are thousands of former Christians, many of whom come to Islam. They have seen the light.
Christianity – a religion that is projected to loose…I mean lose…100 million followers by 2050. Wow!
No, it just proves that you are idiots who desperately misquote true scripture to justify your pathetic devotion to a pagan cult. It’s amazing what lengths you idiots go to keep telling yourself that worshiping a man like a heretic pagan is perfectly reasonable. 😲
Nope.
We are the true Monotheists.
Trinitarian Monotheism is the truth from all eternity past.
God is love.
The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The One True God.
2 Corinthians 13:14
Matthew 28:19
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, [the Son] and the love of God [The Father], and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
2 Corinthians 13:14
😂😂😂 “We are the true monotheists” he says! More like the true monkeys! 🤣
Meanwhile, the Shema said nothing about this trinity monkey-business. Oh but I know, what you’re going to say. “Progressive Revelation” and other nonsense. You would make a good insurance agent, like those guys on the Progressive insurance commercials.
Even the Qur’an says the previous Scriptures are All true – Torah to Zobur to Prophets to Injeel.
You lose.
Thanks for helping with that one word.
You are like Pharisees, strain a gnat and swallow a camel.
Matthew 23:24
“you blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!”
Hahaha, Kennywise got stuck and had to deflect again! You loose…I mean lose again Kennywise. Even your corrupt Bible says no to your trinity monkey-business. Ouch!
“Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (The holy spirit is on vacation but he says hi also).” 1 Corinthians 1:3
🤣😂
Nothing (no principle or law or rule of logic or reason) says that all three persons of the doctrine of the Trinity are required to be mentioned in every verse.
Since we have many passages that DO mention all three persons.
Zechariah 12:10
“I [Yahweh, the Father] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced [The Son]; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
with Zechariah 12:4 – Yahweh speaking, declaring
Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 13:14
Matthew 3:13-17 (Jesus the Son being baptised; the voice of the Father from heaven; and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.)
1 Peter 1:1-2
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
Ephesians 4:4-6
Boom.
you lose.
😂🤣😂 Kennywise again got nuked and comes up with a pathetic excuse for why his trinity monkey-business is not consistently taught!
And then misquotes a verse where he then tries to anachronistically force his pagan trinity by using parentheses! Apparently, the poor clown felt the previous excuse wasn’t good enough.
Let’s see the very next chapter after Zechariah 12 to see the actual context:
“On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the Lord Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land. 3 And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the Lord’s name.’ Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies.”
Well lookie here! The context refers to sometime in the past when Israel had rejected God and worshiped idols. That is the context of the phrase “the one they have pierced”. It’s not a reference to some pagan trinity. Try again Kennywise. You loose again…I mean lose…
Actually, the whole passage points to the future and a fountain of cleansing (Zech. 13:1) – the cleansing of forgiveness through His atonement death, and faith in Him results in cleansing / washing in the soul – also in harmony with John 7:37-39. In the New Covenant, God will cleanse them of their idolatry – Ezekiel 36:25-27.
Actually, the passage talks about cleaning Israel of its idolatry. It has nothing to do with your pagan trinity. Stop lying and spreading your satanic propaganda.
The future it talks about is now in the past. Israel’s idolatry was cleansed.
You already got nuked on Zechariah. Now you jump to Ezekiel, which only makes things worse. Ezekiel contradicts the fundamentals of Christianity by prophesying a future temple where the temple rituals and the Mosaic law will be reinstated. This refutes Christianity as a false religion. Boom!
The NT book of Hebrews indicates that there will not be a future temple with animal sacrifices.
The Second Temple built and enhanced over the centuries, after the return from Exile (Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah) especially during Herod’s reign, was an attempt to restore the glories of the original Solomonic Temple.
But Jesus clearly judged the temple in 70 AD and said He is the ultimate fulfillment of the temple – John 2:19-22
Then the NT book of Hebrews is wrong dummy. That you for proving my point. The NT contradicts the Tanakh and Christianity is false. Your religion can hundreds of years too late.
Ezekiel buries your religion. RIP Christianity.
Nope; Jesus is the fulfillment. John 2:19-22
He is the glory of God that returned. John 1:14
He and the Holy Spirit are the living waters flowing for the healing of the nations. (John 4:14; 7:37-39; Revelation 22:1-2 (fulfillments of Ezekiel 47:1; 47:12) and Rev. 21:3 is fulfillment of Ezekiel 48:35.
These were “visions of God” – symbolic – Ezekiel 1:1; 8:3; 11:24; 40:2; 43:3
Nope, the NT is just wrong. It came too late. Ezekiel promises the physical rebuilding of the temple with specific details and even says that the uncircumcised cannot enter the temple. All this contradicts Christianity. Ezekiel buries Christianity. RIP.
Nope; it was a symbol obviously.
Jesus destroyed the second temple in 70 AD.
He is the true temple.
John 2:19-22
John 4:23-24
Revelation chapters 21 -22.
Nope, it was a literal building obviously. The temple is supposed to be rebuilt which is why so much detail is given about its dimensions. Unless your mangod was supposed to have such dimensions, he cannot be that temple.
The building facing the temple courtyard on the west side was seventy cubits[i] wide. The wall of the building was five cubits thick all around, and its length was ninety cubits.[j]
13 Then he measured the temple; it was a hundred cubits[k] long, and the temple courtyard and the building with its walls were also a hundred cubits long. 14 The width of the temple courtyard on the east, including the front of the temple, was a hundred cubits.
15 Then he measured the length of the building facing the courtyard at the rear of the temple, including its galleries on each side; it was a hundred cubits.
Ezekiel on some of the measurements of the temple. He clearly had a building in mind, not some symbolic mangod temple.
The main hall had a rectangular doorframe, and the one at the front of the Most Holy Place was similar. 22 There was a wooden altar three cubits[l] high and two cubits square[m]; its corners, its base[n] and its sides were of wood. The man said to me, “This is the table that is before the Lord.” 23 Both the main hall and the Most Holy Place had double doors. 24 Each door had two leaves—two hinged leaves for each door. 25 And on the doors of the main hall were carved cherubim and palm trees like those carved on the walls, and there was a wooden overhang on the front of the portico. 26 On the sidewalls of the portico were narrow windows with palm trees carved on each side. The side rooms of the temple also had overhangs.
– More minute details. There is no way this is merely a “symbol” of some crucified mangod. You’d have to be an idiot to think that.
No; the NT book of Hebrews is holy Scripture, God’s word and 600 years before your false book came around.
I will take God’s word over your late book and late word and empty argumentation.
No, the NT book of Hebrews is a heretical book written by a scoundrel who will burn in hell for his lies. It came hundreds of years too late after the Tanakh and proves your false religion is a lie.
I will take my God-given reason over your late forgeries and late word and empty clownish argumentation/propaganda.
*came
ken, even your kafir heart aknowledges that christianity stole the attributes belonging to the father and gave them to jeeesis. if anything nt writers were THieves in the sense that their idolatrous hearts were imedpressed by a Body and they made that body into something else like roman catholics.
think about it temple, luke, mark and mat never identify jesus as a spirit, but the pagan kafir john is the only gospel which tries to give pre-existence to jeezer, this gives kafir like u to force john into all three and make that spirit in john identical to yhwh even thougg the mushrik john never did
ken kafir like u love imagining almighty as a whining baby and one who plops….
you fuse your love for the visible with the invisible. You call people to your spiritual homosexual faggotory. you tell people to put their love for spirits, demons, flesh and bone. But you will always fail . Islam BOWLED the shit out of your religion and posponed those “prophecies” in your bibles lol we know you are jealous and hurt like pagans of mecca
Talk about spelling mistakes . . . Faizy – help your brother in Islam, mr.heathcliff
he makes lots and lots of spelling errors.
Kennywise, English is not his first language. What’s your excuse you troglodyte? 😂😂😂😂
You loose…I mean lose…
@ Ken
The Zechariah quote hurts you lol, let’s read:
“But one of the soldiers had pierced His side with a spear, and immediately water and blood had come out….And …scripture says, ‘They shall look upon HIM Whom they pierced’ ” (John 19:34, 37)
What it actually says:
…They will look on ME, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for HIM as one mourns for an only child…
(Zechariah 12:10)
Notice “John” changed the pronoun. There was a reason for that because God is the “Me”, and the “him” in the verse is referring to a different person. Zechariah has NOTHING to do with the Messiah being crucified. SO much “inspiration” going on here, as I said before like ALL heretics they were looking for anything to prove their false doctrine and heard vague things they weren’t familiar with and jammed them together.
Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).
The entire verse, along with Zechariah 9:9 (Jesus’ humility riding on a donkey); Zechariah 13:7 – The Shepherd who is My associate / my equal / the one who stands next to Me (as in Psalm 110:1 and 2:2-7 – “against the Lord and His Messiah”, etc. – it all points to the confirmation of the Deity of Christ, the Incarnation, the Trinity, the death and atonement on the cross, etc. = fulfillment of prophecy.
ken temple really believes like a pagan kafir that zechariah thought that.the people would pierce zacherias god? These peoples hearts are steeped in paganism, he (temple) just cant avoid imagining yhwh with testicle
LOL
Your responses are entertaining.
It is you who is obsessed with testicles and dirty talk.
Amazing
Lol, actually it seems your Bible was quite obsessed with genitals. See Ezekiel.
It was a graphic way of using shocking language to describe how disgusting (abominations) the sins of Israel was.
No, it was just an unnecessary graphic use of shocking language by someone who was probably a little horny.
“says that all three persons of the doctrine of the Trinity are required to be mentioned in every verse.”
so how do you know which one is which? What if you confuse the two of them or three of them for the same person? So lets go to ot, who is the son and how do u know it isnt the father?
“I [Yahweh, the Father] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced [The Son]; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.”
ken temple, are you okay?
you identified persons of the trinity.
“me” “i” “him”
“as one mourns for an only son” is telling you about experiences and you are making a PERSON out of experiences ?
anyway, how do you DISTINGUISH who is who ?
your world is steeped in paganism ken.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/messiahtruth/does-et-asher-ever-mean-whom-t5027.html
you are like those guys who concentrate on “dirty talk” but at the same time believe yhwh had a dick
who is REALLy dirty then?
“Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).”
which god is pierced yhwh the nature or yhwh the person and why are you IMAGINING yhwh the person as yhwh the MAN, EXISTING AS A MAN
u really believe yhwh was NAILED
this reminds me of this
https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/868274_Thor_jpg23fab071e43209d2dcfd434419971e33
“Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).”
Kafir pagan steeped with imaging yhwh as a man thinks zecharia made distinction like trinitarians do today.
u said zecharias thinks yhwh Was pierced so he thought yhwh was EXISTING AS A MAN?
thinks zecharia made distinction like trinitarians do today.
yes, that is true.
@ Ken
Are you insane? The text says “him who they pierced” that means God is not the one being pierced and it is a misquote. This has nothing to do with your later developed doctrines. How are you going to claim to believe in a text and then completely ignore what it says?
Ken fits the definition of a Kafir right down to the r. An individual who knows the truth and yet denies it. At least Shamounnis crazy so he cannot distinguish between truth and falsehood. What’s your excuse for being a Kafir, Ken?
“Jesus destroyed the second temple in 70 AD.”
no. god destroyed the temple because he knew jewish christians were going to link their idolatry to it.
Jesus predicted / prophesied of the destruction of the 2nd temple (Ezra to Herod, future to when the book of Ezekiel was written – so the details may be what Herod’s temple expansion was for 40 years.)
Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple and pointed people back to Daniel 9:26.
Matthew 23:36-24:3; 24:15
Baloney. Ezekiel refers to an apocalyptic future after the battle of Gog and Magog. Stop your lying.
After all the tribulations, the temple is supposed to be rebuilt. So either Ezekiel has a false prophecy, which would refute Christianity, or it contradicts the NT, which also would refute Christianity. RIP.
The temple WAS rebuilt.
Ezra (return from Babylonian captivity) on down to Herod’s expansion of it. 536 BC to 30 AD.
It can’t be referring to that because it talks about the battle of Gog and Magog before the rebuilding. That didn’t happen in Ezra’s time. So it’s a false prophecy. Christianity loses the battle with cancer. RIP.
even dale tuggy said christian harlotry COULDNT PUT A DENT IN ISLAM Your own unitarian brother
He is a heretic and not a Christian.
Steve Hays has nuked his arguments at Triablogue.
Dr. Michael Brown also nuked him.
A true Jew = Dr. Michael Brown.
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2019/01/tuggy-v-brown.html
dale tuggy says he did muhammad ali shuffle on hays
https://trinities.org/blog/tuggy-rallies-to-knockout/
“Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced (Jesus is God Yahweh by nature) and that Jesus the man is pierced by the crucifixion (Him – the man on the cross).”
look , i will speak with easy to understand english
yhwh EXISTED AS A MAN, YES or no?
yhwh CREATED himself as a man, yes or no?
yhwh HID in a body, but did not exist as a man?
you have the following :
divine nature exists
son exists
father exists
ghost exists
and yhwh the man exists
NONE OF these are IDENTICAL to each other.
so tell me, when yhwh the man died, was it yhwh the son or was yhwh the son WATCHING yhwh the man dying?
What makes you think zecharia thought that yhwh was watching himself die?
“Actually, the quotes of Zechariah 12:10 confirm both that Yahweh is pierced”
ken,
“yhwh is pierced”
ken, yhwh the emptied god is pierced or yhwh the unempty god is pierced?
empty god and unempty god are not identical, they are two
so which yhwh is pierced?
“esults in cleansing / washing in the soul – also in”
Do you imagine yourself bathing in physical blood? you beginning to sound like a catholic.
“Your responses are entertaining.
It is you who is obsessed with testicles and dirty talk.”
this is filthy slander. i am not obsessed with testicles, i just dont understand how you give balls to your CREATOR. makes no sense to me
clearly you have a gay homosexual mind .
“ken temple really believes like a pagan kafir that zechariah thought that.the people would pierce zacherias god? These peoples hearts are steeped in paganism, he (temple) just cant avoid imagining yhwh with testicle”
this is not and obsession, this is a contemplation.
“Lol, actually it seems your Bible was quite obsessed with genitals. See Ezekiel.”
ken, how comes the writes liked comparing sizes ? And whats this talk about imaginging israel with tender boobs and long hair?
mr kafir temple, can you tell me why ezekiel would give details about temple rebuilding ?
//////
muhammadkaram, wa’alaykum a’salam! Welcome to our forums and thank you for your question. Let me respond specifically to your question. Let’s start with a good translation of the relevant passage –
Ezekiel 43:10-12(JPT) – 10. You, Son of man, describe the House to the House of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; let them measure its plan. 11. And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, let them know the form of the House and its scheme, its exits and its entrances, and all its forms, and all its laws and all its teachings, and write it down in their sight so that they keep the whole form thereof and the laws thereof, and do them. 12. This is the teaching of the House; Upon the top of the mountain, all its boundary round about shall be most holy; behold, this is the teaching of the House.
First an overview. This passage, Ezekiel 43:10-12 is a command by God to Ezekiel in which he is commanded to reveal to Israel the plan of the future Temple, explain it to them in detail, and acquaint them with the use to which all its sections were to be put. In the passage I placed several relevant phrases in fuchsia bold font, and will elaborate on them next.
that they may be ashamed of their iniquities (verse 10) – The plan of the future Temple will recall the loss of the former Temple, which was brought about due to their sins, and induce in them a feeling of remorse and contrition.
if they are ashamed of all that they have done, let them know the form of the House and its scheme (Verse 11) – IF the plan moves them to shame and remorse for their past sins, THEN the prophet must give them a detailed account of it and they will be found worthy of envisioning the new Temple.
So this is an “IF … THEN …” conditional command from God to Ezekiel on whether to reveal the details of the future Temple (the one to be built by the promised Jewish King Messiah) to the people. IF they repent from the past sins that caused the destruction of the previous (First) Temple by the Babylonians, THEN Ezekiel must reveal to them the details of the future Temple. This has nothing to do with any prophecies being “canceled” by God. In fact, quite the opposite is true. All the details and rituals of the future Temple are described in the last nine chapters of the Book of Ezekiel – Ezekiel 40-48, first as a vision the prophet had, and later all the details are recorded there, which means that the people repented from the sins that caused the destruction of the First Temple.
Isn’t it amazing how the missionaries change and twist the actual message of a passage in order to justify their false claims?
UriYosef
PS – JPT stands for the Judaica Press Translation, an excellent translation of the Hebrew Bible, which is available online at – https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/63255/jewish/The-Bible-with-Rashi.htm.
“Ezekiel on some of the measurements of the temple. He clearly had a building in mind, not some symbolic mangod temple.”
mr kafir temple , can you address uri yosef?
Ezekiel wrote his book during the exile around 592-570 BC.
After the exile, under Ezra, they started to rebuild the temple. 536 BC onward.
Herod later expanded the temple and make it pretty great. around 14-10 BC to 26 to 30 AD.
The details of the physical building were in the attempts to rebuild the temple from Ezra’s time to Herod’s temple.
This (Ezra and Herod’s second temple) was future to Ezekiel’s vision.
Then Jesus said He is the fulfillment of the temple and the glory of God returning. (the glory of God left the temple in Ezekiel chapters 8-11 and was prophesied to return, and it did return in Jesus.)
John 1:1-5; 1:14
John 2:19-22
So Christianity is still false. Either the book makes a false prophecy, or it contradicts the NT. Either way, it buries Christianity. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust. RIP.
Ezekiel mentions the battle with Gog and Magog. This never happened in that time or in the time of Ezra. So this is a false prophecy. Or it refers to a future event that the author hoped would happen. That contradicts Christianity.
No.
I already proved that you were wrong .
The battle of Gog and Magog is in Revelation 20:7-10
No, you only proved Christianity wrong. RIP.
Ezekiel mentions Gog and Magog. Your book of Revelation came hundreds of years too late. So Ezekiel still buries your religion. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust.
“the glory of God left the temple in Ezekiel chapters 8-11 and was prophesied to return, and it did return in Jesus.”
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14 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 15 Mortal, your kinsfolk, your own kin, your fellow exiles,[a] the whole house of Israel, all of them, are those of whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, “They have gone far from the Lord; to us this land is given for a possession.” 16 Therefore say: Thus says the Lord God: Though I removed them far away among the nations, and though I scattered them among the countries, yet I have been a sanctuary to them for a little while[b] in the countries where they have gone. 17 Therefore say: Thus says the Lord God: I will gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 When they come there, they will remove from it all its detestable things and all its abominations. 19 I will give them one[c] heart, and put a new spirit within them; I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 so that they may follow my statutes and keep my ordinances and obey them. Then they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for those whose heart goes after their detestable things and their abominations,[d] I will bring their deeds upon their own heads, says the Lord God.
22 Then the cherubim lifted up their wings, with the wheels beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was above them. 23 And the glory of the Lord ascended from the middle of the city, and stopped on the mountain east of the city. 24 The spirit lifted me up and brought me in a vision by the spirit of God into Chaldea, to the exiles. Then the vision that I had seen left me. 25 And I told the exiles all the things that the Lord had shown me.
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tell me when any of this happened in jesus’ life time? this is AFTER the chapter you quoted.
can you tell me the reason why the old testament and jewish writings pre-jesus predicted the fall of the temple? what was their reasons?
“It was a graphic way of using shocking language to describe how disgusting (abominations) the sins of Israel was.”
why specifically mention genitalia and sizes ? instead of shocking a person this could turn into a porn magazine. didn’t yhwh know ?
” describe how disgusting (abominations) the sins of Israel was”
what were the sins they were doing ? which gods did they have in mind? idols? humans? demons? spirits? angels? celestial bodies?
More proof from Ezekiel that destroys Christianity:
““‘After the seven months they will carry out a more detailed search. 15 As they go through the land, anyone who sees a human bone will leave a marker beside it until the gravediggers bury it in the Valley of Hamon Gog, 16 near a town called Hamonah.[c] And so they will cleanse the land.’”
17 “Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19 At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20 At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,’ declares the Sovereign Lord.
“25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob[d] and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28 Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”” (Ezekiel 39)
So after the destruction of Gog and Magog, and the burial of their soldiers, and a massive feast by scavengers on the remaining bodies, God will restore Israel. None of this happened in the time of Ezra. Therefore, if Kennywise’s interpretation is followed, it was a false prophecy. Christianity has been stricken and cannot survive. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust. RIP.