God does not talk like this!

John 5:30

New International Version
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

New Living Translation
I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will. Witnesses to Jesus 

English Standard Version
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

Berean Study Bible
I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Berean Literal Bible
I am able to do nothing of Myself. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My will, but the will of the One having sent Me.

New American Standard Bible 
“I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

King James Bible
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Christian Standard Bible
“I can do nothing on my own. I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

Contemporary English Version
I cannot do anything on my own. The Father sent me, and he is the one who told me how to judge. I judge with fairness, because I obey him, and I don’t just try to please myself. 

Good News Translation
“I can do nothing on my own authority; I judge only as God tells me, so my judgment is right, because I am not trying to do what I want, but only what he who sent me wants. 

Holman Christian Standard Bible
“I can do nothing on My own. I judge only as I hear, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 

International Standard Version
I can do nothing on my own accord. I judge according to what I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.”

NET Bible
I can do nothing on my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the one who sent me. 

New Heart English Bible
I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the One who sent me.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I cannot do anything of my own will, but according to that which I have heard, I judge, and my judgment is just, for I am not seeking my will, but the will of him who has sent Me.

GOD’S WORD® Translation
I can’t do anything on my own. As I listen [to the Father], I make my judgments. My judgments are right because I don’t try to do what I want but what the one who sent me wants.

New American Standard 1977 
“I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jubilee Bible 2000
I can of my own self do nothing; as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who has sent me.

King James 2000 Bible
I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who has sent me.

American King James Version
I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.

American Standard Version
I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I cannot of myself do any thing. As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me. 

Darby Bible Translation
I cannot do anything of myself; as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my will, but the will of him that has sent me.

English Revised Version
I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Webster’s Bible Translation
I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who hath sent me.

Weymouth New Testament
“I can of my own self do nothing. As I am bidden, so I judge; and mine is a just judgement, because it is not my own will that guides me, but the will of Him who sent me.

World English Bible
I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.

Young’s Literal Translation
‘I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.

Categories: God, Jesus

223 replies

  1. But, but, but…he was a mangod, with two natures!

  2. Assertions are not evidence. What about some argument as to why I should believe you.

    • @ Erasmus

      Easy its an irrational statement:

      “I (God) can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I (God) seek not my own will but the will of him (God) who sent me.

      So God cannot do anything of his own power? He is just because He does not do his own will only the will of Himself?

      Jesus(as) is obviously sent by God and not God himself. Worship the same one Jesus(as) worshipped.

      • Better:

        “I (the eternal Son who became flesh/human – John 17:5; John 1:1-5; Philippians 2:5-8) can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I (the eternal Son) seek not my own will but the will of him (God the Father) who sent me.

      • Better: In other words, I serve and worship the God who created me and you should too.

        So give up your paganism and worship God.

      • The only thing that appears irrational to me is your comment.

      • Allow me to translate for Iggy: I don’t know how to respond so I will pretend the opposing view is “irrational” and leave it at that and run away like a scared little mouse.

      • When you are used to having to put words in brackets to make sense of the koran I guess it becomes habit forming.

    • Um because it’s utterly stupid to claim that the ALMIGHTY would have any limitations?

  3. The eternal Son of God (John 17:5), the eternal Word of God (John 1:1-5), who became a man (John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8; Luke 1:34-35) who was on earth and in His incarnational body/human state (pre-resurrection and pre-glorification, pre-ascension back to the Father) at the time, did speak that way to show His unity with the Father.

    • You see guys? But, but, but, it’s a mangod with 2 natures. So there!

    • You clowns turn every clear statement showing the humanity of your god upside down and throw out all logic all to justify your shameless paganism.

      • @ QB

        I mean seriously.

      • Except that Trinitarian Monotheism is not “paganism” or “shirk”(creating 2 or 3 gods) since it is by definition still Biblical Monotheism.

        It is your 600 year late religion that was made up by Muhammad who was just hearing stuff (Surah 2:75, 78-79), was uneducated ( Surah 7:157 “unlettered”, “not formally educated”), and did not understand the Scriptures (Surah 2:78) (the Bible was not translated into Arabic until the 900s AD, unfortunately) that has created a new false religion by writing new things down and claiming it was from God. (Surah 2:79)

      • Sure it is. Worshipping a man is paganism. You see what I mean about you clowns throw out all logic just to justify your paganism?

        Trinitarian monotheism…Lol, how’s that for double talk!

    • It simply doesn’t make sense! Are you saying Jesus was saying that because he emptied himself from being God or what? If so, then that means he is not God!
      Moreover, God is one, and that’s why He has his own will! Christians are talking about separate identities, each of whom has its own will, so there’s no meaning in believing in one God. You have detached the oneness of God from its meaning because of your absurd language which is not found in your gospels to begin with! That’s why christians cannot engage in a meaningful debate with polytheists about how importance to belive in one God. The oneness of God has its own implications, yet christians cannot build their case on those implications because they are not found in their belief. It’s just a saying!
      Remember my brothers, the belief in one God is the Most important teaching according to Jesus in the gospel.
      Finally, what are christians going to say about the holy spirit according to their interpretation for (John 16:13)? “He will not speak on his own”?! Imagine! God cannot speak on his own!?

      • “emptied Himself” does not mean literally “emptied Himself of being God” – rather it means by the taking on of human nature, he laid aside temporally the use of His divine powers at all times, which explains why He said “no one knows the hour of My return except the Father alone”, etc. see here:

      • Just like Krishna apparently. So Christians are pagans. Thanks for clearing that up. 👍

      • Totally different. Kirshna is a cartoon, non-historical, and made popular in the west by George Harrison of the Beatles. (Nov. 1970)

      • Belief in Krishna has been around for a lot longer than belief in Jesus (pbuh).

        None of this changes the fact that you also worship a man. Whether historical or cartoon doesn’t make a difference.

      • Legends and cartoons of pagans.

      • Just like the legends of your cartoon mangod.

        The historical Jesus never claimed divinity. But that’s because he wasn’t a pagan like you who believed that a man could be God.

      • It really doesn’t make sense. By saying “he laid aside temporally the use of His divine powers”, you are emptying the real understanding of what God is, which involves necessarily that He’s all Knowing and all Powerful. If he emptied himself from these attributes, He’s not God necessarily. You cannot spin around this fact.
        Do you remember how Elijah mocked the false prophets and their gods?
        Let me remind you,
        “About noontime Elijah began mocking them. “You’ll have to shout louder,” he scoffed, “for surely he is a god! Perhaps he is daydreaming, or is relieving himself. Or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!”
        Surely if Elijah had had the same understanding of christians about God,
        his argument and mockery against those false gods would’ve been meaningless!
        Also, as far as I know that christians with their absurd and nonsensical belief insist that Jesus is (fully) God even when he’s on earth. That’s why I emphasis agains that christians don’t have a real argument against polytheists to affirm the most important teaching according to Jesus. They cannot engage with polytheists as Elijah did. It’s only muslims, who have inherited legally the religion of Abraham, who can defend this belief.
        Finally, again what about the holy spirit? The holy spirit doesn’t know the hour, and it’s obvious he has not absolute authority as we expect from God. What are christians going to say about the holy spirit according to their interpretation for (John 16:13)? “He will not speak on his own”?! Imagine! God cannot speak on his own!?

      • The eternal Son laid aside temporally the use of His divine powers. Not the Father. the mocking of the gods of Baal is in contrast with the One True God. God is in heaven, before the incarnation of Jesus the Son, and the Father is still in heaven while the Son was on earth for 33 years.

        John 16:13 is talking about the Unity of the 3 persons, the unity of the Holy Spirit with the Father. The meaning is that He does not go off on His own without harmony and unity with the Father and the Son.

      • You just repeat yourself with this absurd language Jesus himself didn’t use! It’s a big fat logical fallacy. I’m sure you know that already, but the arrogance in you makes you reject the truth.

        //the mocking of the gods of Baal is in contrast with the One True God. //
        I know! That’s why you cannot engage with polytheists as Elijah did. Only muslims can do that.

        //before the incarnation of Jesus the Son, and the Father is still in heaven while the Son was on earth for 33 years.//
        That’s just non sequitur. You read that passage backwardly, and this christian reading doesn’t really bear any value. In fact, the saying of Jesus we are talking about cannot be read like this unless you prove that jewish audience Jesus was speaking to had already known that God would put his power aside, which is impossible

        //He does not go off on His own without harmony //
        Harmony? hahahah! This “harmony” involves that one god has to have more authority than the other one, which necessarily would roll out one of them in favor of another one to be the absolute one true God. If you say they are equal, then you would not find this harmony in creation and universe which indicates to the one true God. You see, muslims can easily refute polytheists who believe in many gods who work in harmony. You cannot escape this fact. In fact, Qur’an has already refuted this idea and its implications that christians cannot escape from
        “In fact, We have given them the truth, and they are liars. God has never begotten a son, nor is there any god besides Him. Otherwise, each god would have taken away what it has created, and some of them would have gained supremacy over others. Glory be to God, far beyond what they describe. The Knower of the hidden and the manifest. He is exalted, far above what they associate.” QT. In sum, in either way, you are in a big trouble theologically.
        Finally, the holy spirit doesn’t know the hour. Why is that? Isn’t he all knowing? Obviously not.

      • *That’s why I emphasize that christians don’t….

  4. Let’s read how normal people would read this sentence:

    …I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

    So if “Son” and “Daddy” are both God this lame 2 nature (whatever that means) excuse still doesn’t make sense, in reality, you have God saying: “I don’t seek my will, only the will of myself”

    Final note, why are all these statements that Christians quote as evidence always “ambiguous” we never have to interpret who God is in the OT?

    • Christianity…the religion of ambiguity and double-talk. 🙄

      • @ QB

        Lol, Ken thinks shirk is just creating more than 1 god.

        @ Ken

        No, Ken, this is not the only definition of shirk it’s only a small component of it. You basically do all major components:

        Shirk in God’s Lordship
        Giving Jesus(as) rulership with God

        Shirk in God’s names and attribute
        By likening God to His creation and giving the creation God’s attributes

        Shirk in Worship
        Praying to Jesus or in Jesus’s name

        I mean there are more but these are just a couple major ones just off the top of my head. So yes you are engaged in paganism by worshipping 3 things and more aspects of shirk by doing the above.

      • I wonder if Pennywise thinks that Hindu worship of Krishna is paganism then? I mean he’s an incarnation of “God” to Hindus, so using the clown’s logic, that is not paganism either.

  5. But it is not shirk / paganism since the 3 persons are one in substance.

    We don’t “liken God to His creation”; rather God the Son humbled Himself and became a human.

    Jesus is Lord, yes, and so is the Father and the Spirit – One God in three persons.

    • Each of those points (Lordship, names and attributes, and prayer/worship) are creating another “god” in your and Islamic understanding.

      Therefore, after you explicate each of three points, it is creating more than one god.

      • @ Ken


        Jesus is Lord, yes, and so is the Father and the Spirit – One God in three persons.

        3 persons are one in substance

        Is pretty much all shirk,

        Jesus is Lord (Only God is)
        Calling God “Daddy”, a “Ghost” and “3 persons” (aka 3 people)

        As QB said you are no different in essence than the Hindus. The only difference is the idol’s names,

      • except Hindus have millions of gods; whereas Christianity has only ONE God.

        so you be wrong.

    • It’s still paganism because you are worshipping a man dummy. You can say all you want about “one in substance” and other double talk, but that doesn’t change the fact that Jesus was a man. You worship him like the pagans worship their mangods.

      • @ Ken

        Actually no I’m not their diffrent gods are simply aspects or avatars (what you call persons) that are just manifestations of the one supreme God. Like Christians their texts speaks of monotheism as well. As I said they are saying the same thing you are they just didn’t stop at 3 and the idol’s names are different. According to your beliefs how are they pagans but your not other than you simply didn’t like the other persons?

      • The incarnation and Trinity are totally unique and not like pagans “mangods”.
        So, you are wrong and blind and dead in your sins (Ephesians 2:1-3) and you are unable to respond rightly unless God in His grace opens your heart. (John 2:24; 8:43, 47; Romans 1:18; John 3:18; 3:36)

      • So still no straight answer. Does that mean you have no answer Pennywise and are stumped? Isn’t that why you’re avoiding the question?

      • Not avoiding anything.

        Just don’t have time for you right now.
        I have spent enough time for right now refuting all of your dumb arguments.

      • Lol, sure sure. The Christian pagan is too busy all of a sudden. 😂🤣😂

      • The Hindu gods are cartoons (blue, ten arms, half elephant-half man), idols, legends, with no historical reality of foundation.

        No comparison with the incarnation, the virgin birth, and historical reality and truth of Christ.

      • Hey look, the Christian pagan has some more time for his idiotic posts which don’t answer the question!

        Your god is a cartoon too you idiot. 🤣🤣

        And it still doesn’t change the fact that both Christians and Hindus worship human beings as gods. You are both pagans. Might as well admit it.

        Hey, if you’re a Christian pagan, does that make you a pagian? 😆

      • The Hindu concepts of avatars / manifestations/ aspects, etc. of the one impersonal “ground of being” of the Brahman concept is not the same parallel concept of “three persons in One God”.

      • The Hindu “Brahman” is a metaphysical concept that is impersonal and not really comparable to the personal creator God of the Bible.

      • Poor Pennywise is forced to rant and fire off confused rapid-fire posts to avoid admitting that he’s a pagan…and still avoids answering the question.

        Hindus worship their god in human form, just like you do. How is the former defined as paganism, yet the latter is not in your diseased mind? Answer the question.

  6. “except Hindus have millions of gods; whereas Christianity has only ONE God.

    so you be wrong.”

    Lol, what a pathetic attempt to avoid answering the question! I didn’t say anything about whether its polytheistic or monotheistic. I asked if it counts as paganism to worship Krishna as God. So answer the question.

  7. @ QB

    Also keep in mind Kenny’s struggling qith this he still has to explain how Jesus is God and yet has a god. (John 20:17 and Revelation 3:2,12)

    But, but we’re monotheistic lol.

  8. @ QB

    And he still doesn’t get that they’re saying the same thing in essence:

    Many Hindus believe in Brahman as the ultimate reality – one ‘Supreme Spirit’ in many forms. Brahman is male, female and even animal.

    Brahman is also commonly understood as the Trimurti – three gods with three key functions:

    Brahma – the source of all creation.
    Vishnu – responsible for keeping all good things on Earth and bringing harmony when needed.
    Shiva – assists in the creation of new things – some things have to end for others to begin

    Look at that God has three separate functions

    Incarnations and avatars
    Many Hindus believe that Lord Vishnu has appeared on Earth in human or animal form, called incarnations or avatars. Examples of this include Rama and Krishna who were both princes. Hindus believe they were sent to save the Earth in times of danger.


    All they do is believe God manifests into more than just a Trinity. Also Brahman is personal


    So basically same crap different smell.

  9. Hindus worship their god in human form, just like you do.

    No, they are cartoons.

    they are not real historical humans.


    • 🤣😂🤣 How do you know, you biased monkey? Krishna could have been a historical person who was later turned into a god, just like you pagans turned Jesus into a god.

      And again, none of this changes the fact that you both worship men. You are both pagans. Admit it Pennywise. You are making a bigger fool of yourself by avoiding admitting who you are. Be who you are! Let yourself be free! 😁

      • @ QB

        Right the random pic of Caesare Borgia is soooo much better. There is nothing they have that doesn’t look like any of the crap from the book of Daniel or Revelations. This is just stylistic choice depiction from Indian culture. And they actually worship humans as well Sai Baba. His whole thing canned be summed up as:

        Don’t pray to their cartoon gods manifested in physical realm come pray to our confused gods who don’t know their creation, has its own god and and is some weird relationship where its the son of thing its the father of.

        At the end of the day its all worshipping humans we just get a case study of the Devil taking 2 diffrent routes to trick people into doing it.

      • Indeed!

        All of this paganism just sickens me! I cannot understand how people can be so stupid as to worship a human being, whether it’s Krishna, the Roman emperors, the Pharaohs, Jesus, Sai Baba etc.

      • It’s very simple: Christians worship Jesus. They says Jesus is BOTH man and God (logical fallacy of course but just stick with me). So when you worship the person Jesus you worship a man since being man is what seperates him from just being merely the Son (ie the second ‘person’ without incarnation).

      • Oh, I get it now! 🤪

  10. Cherry picking dodgy quotes from dodgy sources to back up own dodgy ideology.

  11. @ Ken

    I just posted the shield of the Trinity before you and its just as contradicting nonsense then as ii is now (btw the Trinity is not established in the Bible nor was it what Christians always believed so that article just plain lied) Moving on, we all know what the Trinity is and there is no question that you make partners with God by worshipping Jesus(as) as an idol. You could put as many fancy titles as you want like the Shia/ Hindus but you’re all deifying humans and trying to find “loopholes” around it.

    Also because you seem to have so much commentary why does “God” have a god? The doctrine is false and a CLASSIC case of exaggerating a person’s status. You all are not the first and unfortunately probably not the last. Now c’mon up to Tawheed with us its much easiet to understand and to worship the One who is Lord of All.

  12. @ Abdullah 1244

    Absolutely beautiful answer. To add to what your saying I think one of the issues is not actually proccessing and understanding God’s names and attributes. By saying God “temporarily laid His dive power to the side” make several issues:

    1. He was still doing supernatural things according to the Christian doctrine
    2. More importantly He may no longer describe Himself with that attribute. Foe example, if He laid His powers to the side he is no longer:

    All Knowing, All Seeing, All Hearing etc because there was a point in time (even for a second) when He didn’t know, see, hear etc.

    So by saying this we now we have the case that they don’t value God with His true worth and He is above the things they claim about Him.

    • The eternal Son “temporarily laid the use of the fullness of His divine powers down voluntarily, while on earth”

      Sometimes, He uses His power, as in knowing the hearts of people, calming the storm, healing people, walking on water, etc.

      • So your god is bipolar. Got it.

      • Did he have those powers or did he not Ken?
        It’s a yes or no question. If yes then that goes against him knowing the Hour for example. If not then he wasn’t fully god by definition.
        End of story.

      • So God changes?

        But the Bible says God does not change.

        Malachi 3:6 “For the Lord, do not change”

        Ken is DESTROYED.

      • You don’t understand the Son voluntarily coming to earth, becoming human, living for 33 years, dying on the cross, rising from the dead, going back to heaven.

        But the Father did not become human; only the eternal Son did.

      • What does that have to do with my question?
        I asked you ‘Was Jesus all knowing on earth or not?’ and you give me a pulpit reply about him coming voluntarily, dying and whatever.

      • We already have answered that question many many times, because of Matthew 24:36 and the parallel in Mark 13:32; which has been explained, and I also already explained.

        Dr. White explained it years ago to Muslim’s questions; but you guys don’t want to accept the Christian understanding of how we deal with that issue.

      • The problem with you is that you think that any nonsensical explanation by you or are your like-minded, brainwashed ilk needs to be accepted as sound by everyone else, just because you are stupid enough to swallow such garbage. Don’t blame us for using our reason, while you don’t.

      • No his explanation is horrendous. Firstly he asks whether Muslims believe Jesus ever spoke these words. What?
        We don’t HAVE to believe he did. The fact is YOU believe he did and that’s what the argument is based on.
        Then he gives his explanation which has more holes in it then Swiss cheese. He talks about the limitations the Son took upon himself. But this is exactly the point. If he takes limitations upon himself then he can’t be fully God. Either he knows or he doesn’t, either he is omnipotent or he’s not, either he is all powerful or he’s not. Saying he is both is a logical self-contradiction. And btw the Holy Spirit doesn’t know either, ONLY the Father, which goes to prove how bogus his attempt at explaining away the evidence of Jesus not being God really is.

      • Since you believe the so-called “eternal son” is also “God”, then your god changed. Get over it, Pennywise. Your double talk and mindless babble just exposes your brainwashed nature more and more.

      • Taking on an additional human nature does not affect the Divine nature in the least, so you are wrong. again.

        keep up the insults; you expose the fruit of your false religion.

        “you will know them by their fruits” Jesus Al Masih عیسی المسیح
        Matthew 7:15-20

      • More double talk. By taking on a human nature, your god changed. Keep up the nonsensical excuses and the whining. They expose the fruits of your religion and refute it. 😁

        And your Arabic lessons are not needed nor asked for, especially since your kafir/kufaar mix-up a few days ago. 😉

      • شما دل شریر دارید

      • Again, your pathetic lessons are not needed or asked for, you kuffar…😉

      • انجیل مرقس می گوید که دل شریر دارید . مرقس ۲۰:۷ تا ۲۳
        همچنین رفتار شما خیلی بد است و نشان می دهد که دین شما خراب است

      • Aww, a certain someone is a little too insecure about themselves. Do you need a hug? 🤗

      • Your methods of manipulation and psychoanalyzing show you are the one projecting your insecurities onto me. Your methods don’t bother me at all. I just put more and more Farsi up to bother you. I figured you were smart enough to at least go to Google translate and get some idea of what I am saying. God is sovereign and just and He will deal with you in time.

        Mark 7:20-23, the words of the Messiah Jesus عیسی المسیح are true words and apply to the pride and selfishness and malice in your heart. It is you who must repent and believe in the gospel of the NT. Mark 1:15; Romans 1:18; Romans 3:9-28

        Jesus says you are under the wrath God.
        John 3:18
        John the baptizer agrees:
        John 3:36
        The apostle Paul agrees:
        Romans 1:18
        Jesus again:
        Luke 13:1-5 – unless you repent, you will likewise perish.

        I am glad you behave the way you do, because it exposes how corrupt your religion is – there is no fruit or kindness in it – it is a harsh and evil system of legalism, oppression of women, hypocrisy, aggressive wars all throughout history since it’s beginning, and lack of looking at itself and being honest about the problems it has within it.

      • “””””it is a harsh and evil system of legalism, oppression of women, hypocrisy, aggressive wars all throughout history since it’s beginning, and lack of looking at itself and being honest about the problems it has within it.”””””

        Did you just discribe your own religion? I think you did.
        So was the system of legalism in the OT also harsh and evil? You know cutting of the hand of a woman if she defends her husband if it touched the jewelry of the other person?
        And opression of women? You mean getting your hand cut off like I just described? Or how about the being a slave and getting beaten to a near death experience and the master not being brought to justice if you ‘get up after a day or two’? Or how about bowing down to your husband like the wife of Abraham? Or how about not being allowed to divorce your husband unless he is unchaste which means a husband that beats the living crap out of her everyday is a man she has to live with for the remaining days of his or her life.
        Hypocrisy? You mean like the rules in your so called holy book of God?
        And when you mention the agressive wars do you mean the literal bloodbaths xtians made throughout history like the countless of genocides? How about the country you live which was stolen by comitting the worst genocide ever and then building it up on the blood and bones of African slaves? You know ‘the greatest country in the world’?
        And the lack of looking at itself and being honest about the problems it has within it is the perfect discription that fits your cult. Look at the countless of errors and contradiction. Look at the lies it tells. Authors lying about their identities, authors who don’t even mention their identity and just editing other so called gospel that came before, authors that were apperantly so horny that they couldn’t help themselves but write horny verses, prophets comitting the WORST crimes EVER like polytheism, genocides, incest, …

        David and his men performing penis surgeries to not just a hundred men but two hundred since David felt it would better to do so. Or how about the WORST thing ever said about God: That he was squeezed out of a woman’s private part with vaginal juices all over him. Astaferlah!!! And these ‘people’ have the audacity to tell us who God is.


      • Blah, blah, blah. Pennywise, none of your personal opinions mean anything to anyone. The fact that you feel the need to say things in Farsi, when no one even speaks it here nor cares what language(s) you speak, just goes to show that you are an insecure and whiny little girl. Whether it’s English or Farsi, when it comes from you, it’s nothing but innane babble. You provide comedic relief, nothing more. Now take your pagan religion and shove it, you kufaar. 😉

    • Ken’s god reminds me of a comic book superhero who realizes he has powers but resolves to only use them when needed.

    • Kens attributes are like a dung beetle, spending all day in a hot state pushing his shit ball all over the internet proud of its size never feeling any shame nor gaining any wisdom.

    • Paul Williams wrote:

      So God changes?

      The ontological substance of God did not change. The Father and the Holy Spirit are not changed. The Son only took on a human nature while on earth for 33 years; and even then His divine nature did not “change” – He just voluntarily chose to live under the limitations of humanity for a while, all the while for our salvation.

      But the Bible says God does not change.

      Malachi 3:6 “For the Lord, do not change”

      Yes, all of that is still true, even with the truth of the Incarnation.

      • More double-talk! God doesn’t change but he “voluntarily chose to live under the limitations of humanity”! If he chose to live with human limitations, then he did change. One cannot be All-Knowing and not know something at the same time.

    • Faiz,
      What a stupid article since I already explained the difference.
      You have a brain problem.

      • 🤣😂🤣 You are so stupid and brainwashed that you have convinced yourself that you have “explained the difference”. You have explained nothing you idiot. That’s why you’re a clown.

        You worship a man. So do Hindus and Jains. Yet you call Hindus and Jains “pagans” but not yourself. It doesn’t matter if the people they worship were historical or made-up. They were still WORSHIPED as HUMANS. You do the same, regardless of your idiotic excuses and your trinity nonsense. Thus, you are no different than any run-of-the-mill pagan. The longer you remain in denial, pretending like you’ve “explained” anything, the more of a clown you become. Frankly, I am getting embarrassed for you! 😆

      • I am glad you behave the way you do, because it exposes your religion has no power to act with proper responses to people.

        All you have is dead rituals, legalism, aggressive warfare, and a lots of hypocrisy that causes many Muslims to leave Islam in the past 40 years.

      • Ken you are so blind. This proves to me you are not following the Truth.

      • I already have the light of the truth of the true God in Christ and the New Testament revelation, so I cannot be blind and I have assurance of the truth, since Jesus promised; and since He Himself is the Truth (John 14:6) and His unity with the Father and the Father’s word (John 17:17) also sanctifies us in the Truth and we have the Spirit of Truth. (John 14:16-17; 14:26; 16:12-13)

        Jesus promised peace (John 14:27), eternal life (John 5:24; 1 John 2:25), etc., so why would I seek your false 600 year late false religion?

        Your position is even worse (than ignorant Muslims who were born in Islam), according to 2 Peter 2:19-22; since you claim to have once known the way of righteousness.

      • From my perspective it is you (and all other Muslims) who are blind and not following the Truth.

        You all need the truth of the NT Jesus. (John 14:6; John 17:17; John 14:17-17; 14:26; 16:12-13)

      • Poor Pennywise. He knows he has no answers. He knows he’s stuck. So he’ll pretend that he has answered the question, and then whine like a little girl. That’s when you know he is desperate. But you can’t blame him. He is the result of a cult that brainwashes its followers and persuades them to jettison their reason. These are the fruits of Christianity. It’s the kind of rotten fruit that would inebriate a moose!

      • I gave good answers and I know that I did give good answers, from Scripture, and the truth of Christianity.

        It is you who is the clown Pennywise, since your sinful anger shows that it is you who might actually act like the Pennywise clown character in the Stephen King novel, because of the anger and hatred in your heart. Mark 7:20-23; Genesis 6:5; Luke 13:1-5

      • Sure, sure Pennywise. Keep telling yourself that you did good. Pat yourself on the back like a good brainwashed zombie.

        The “truth” of Christianity, you say? There is no “truth” in paganism, Pennywise.

        Haha, I got you to Google “Pennywise”! 🤣

      • Hey Pennywise, how many crosstians have left your pagan religion in the last 40 years? And how many more will leave in the next 50 years? Hundreds of millions!

  13. The Debate between Dr. White and Abdullah Kunde explained that. Notice Abdullah’s statement which I highlighted.


    • Ah, that’s debate 🙂
      That’s debate should have been named (Can God Become a Created Being).
      Also, christians’ idea is deeply stupid! In one hand, they insist that God is so holy, and that belief about His holiness must be maintained no matter what. On the other hand, the best way to maintain that holiness according to christians is to believe that God can be unholy(i.e.through eating, drinking, defecating, sleeping, getting tempted, and even dying) so that we can reach Him. Christianity is the definition of contradiction itself.

  14. An Atlas rant!!!

  15. @ Everyone

    Oh no, idol worshipers whose gods become weak and can be killed by us (crucifixion,tower of Babel etc) thinks we’re lost whatever shall we do?

    I mean how can we not accept this belief about God (@ 1:59)

    • 🤣😂🤣 I love this episode! “God loves you! He’s gonna kill you!”

    • All the basic points and mockery and blasphemy in the cartoon about heaven & hell & God’s right to judge can also be used against Islam. People are afraid to do that mockery because they want to live . David Wood is one of the few people who are brave enough to mock Islamic teachings. The writers of the Simpsons are brave making fun of a caricature of Christianity, but it was just a simplistic caricature full of falsehoods. But they are not brave enough to do that with Islam.

      The cartoon scene that shows Jesus on the swing set and apparently emotionally damaged as if in a mental institution is certainly an insult to the powerful resurrection and the powerful scenes of him in his ascension and glory in Revelation chapter 5 – He certainly is not weak and struggling now, According to the Scriptures he is powerful and will one day come again as the judge who will judge the living and the dead and will make a just war and will pour out judgment and retribution on all who do not except him as their Lord and Savior. (Revelation 20)

      • Revelation 19-20
        Acts chapters 2-5; 17:29-31

      • Christianity and Christians like you deserve nothing but mockery. You and your boyfriend Wood are followers of a pagan religion with the most nonsensical storyline ever.

        And actually, that Simpsons clip is right on. Think about it. God is depicted as anything by All-Knowing. Your Bible depicts God in many places as anything but All-Knowing. Genesis 18 is a perfect example. And of course, the NT showing Jesus and the Holy Spirit not knowing things is another example.

      • Psalm 139
        God is all knowing and all powerful so the cartoon is totally wrong and filled with lots of holes like Swiss cheese .

      • Lol, you completely ignored what I said and just jumped to a different verse, written by a different author. Genesis 18 shows that your god was not All-Knowing, and neither were the so-called “son” or the holy spirit. You worship beings which have no business being called God.

      • Historical narrative has to be interpreted in light of teaching passages of law and principles . It is obvious that God knows everything but in genesis 11 – the Tower of Babel and genesis 18 and the testing of Abrahams faith in Genesis 22 – by the way you have the same thing if it is a test why does God do it since he already knows ahead of time if the person will pass or fail the test ? so the passage does not teach that God doesn’t know the future – rather the is test is for the Human, not for God to find out what’s going on .

      • Where does it say it’s a test? Why are you lying? In Genesis 18, your god clearly says that he came down to confirm the reports about Sodom and Gamorrah! Where is the “test”?

      • Genesis 22:1 and ff. – was a test. Same principles for Gen. 11 and 18. They do not mean God does not know. These are just expressions for the angel of the Lord coming down and relating to mankind and taking special attention to the situation.
        The teaching passages of the principles that God is all knowing determine how to understand those events. (Psalm 139; 115; 135, etc.)

      • The Psalms were written later. You are anachronistically superimposing a different theology to avoid the uncomfortable implications of Genesis 22.

        The sort of anthropomorphism seen in Genesis 22 was characteristic of the Yahwist source. You are just making up the claim that it was a “test”. There is nothing to indicate that it was.

      • Genesis 22:1 says it was a test. God tested Abraham.

        “Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.”

        The JEDP theory has been debunked long ago. “Yahwist [sic] source”

        It is all God-breathed Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:15-17

      • Oops, sorry I was talking about Genesis 18, not 22.

      • God knows everything (Omniscient) and is Omnipresent.

        So, the language of Gen. 22:1 of testing, 22:12 – “now I know that you fear God”, etc. – is language that stoops to our weak, human, time bound nature. God is above time. So, the same principle explains the phrases in Genesis 18 and 11 “let us go down and see and find out” are also time bound language in order to stoop to our level of understanding. God condescends to our level in order to communicate truths.

      • It’s a contradiction, plain and simple.

        Applying such language to the Almighty is precisely the problem. It is unbecoming of God. It’s a blasphemous portrayal. This is how pagan gods were described.

      • The Hadith says Allah has a shin. part of a leg; like lifting up a robe.

      • Pennywise going off on tangents again! The pagan’s desperation is showing!

      • The Shin of Allah. implications of feet, legs, robe, lifting the robe to show shin, etc.

      • Hahahaha, Pennywise has to commit a tu quo que fallacy to escape the conundrum he is in!

      • I’m already familiar with Sproul. Your appeal to authority fallacy doesn’t solve the problem.

      • It’s not an appeal to authority, rather the content of the argument itself.

      • You’re basing your claim on nothing but someone’s personal opinion.

      • The only thing full no of holes is your Bible.

      • David Wood is a nasty loser and full of hatred, and it seems you’re like him. Just stop pretending to be a respectful christian.
        David Wood was mocking muslims because they’re devoted in their prayers and getting up early for the Dawn prayer. What a loser.
        The example of this person in Qur’an
        “And when you call to prayer, they take it in ridicule and amusement. That is because they are a people who do not use reason. Say, “O People of the Scripture, do you resent us except [for the fact] that we have believed in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed before and because most of you are defiantly disobedient?” Say, “Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way.” QT.

        Our answer is like what Noah said to the disbelievers “”If you ridicule us, then we will ridicule you just as you ridicule. And you are going to know who will get a punishment that will disgrace him [on earth] and upon whom will descend an enduring punishment [in the Hereafter].” QT.

  16. @ Ken

    For your refrence you gave TERRIBLE answers that only a fool or someone who needs something to believe in would accept. You basically said God took on a human nature and spoke as a schizophrenic and said he does not do His will only His will. And that He was basically stripped of his godhood like Disney’ Hercules

    Jesus’s life on earth and crucifixion


    After going to Hell and ressurection:


    As I said said earlier, same crap different smell. This is a LAUGHABLE description and attribute of God. Now c’mon and worship the One that death and sleep can’t overcome (2:55) we’re waiting for ya.

    • The first video is gone.

      • @ Ken

        Basically, Hades takes Hercules divine powers (I’m mocking the false doctrine of God setting aside his powers)

        Anyways don’t get mad at the Simpsons because what the Bible says about God is FAR worse. Everything said in the cartoon is how God is depicted in the Bible, essentially it makes God a weak, vengeful child that is prone to error so the threat of this being really holds no water as it clearly fears us in what is being portrayed in the text. Examples again the Tower of Babel, “Whaaa!!! I created mankind but they don’t listen so now I’m going to destroy them”, “Waaa!!! I regret making Saul king”, now I’m sending my Son who is me who I’m the Daddy of to fix it, oh wait this thing doesn’t have My attributes and doesn’t even know when the Day of Judgement it.

        THAT cartoon is how the Bible portrays God. Yes, it’s annoying, ridiculous and blasphemous which is what EVERY Muslim here has been trying to tell you. I’m not even talking about becoming a Muslim yet that’s far too advance I just want you, Ken, to sit down and think about who God is (Specifically the “Father”). I honestly believe if you contemplated onGod’s attributes understanding what He is, you would be guided.

        David Wood is retarded and lacks reading comprehension so he makes a fool out himself and only increases his punishment in the Fire. But again we gotta walk before we run.

      • If you say The God of the Bible is vengeful and like a child then the god of Islam in the Quran is also vengeful or like a child because he does judge and there is heaven and hell and Judgment Day. Same blasphemous mockery.

      • But the God of the Bible is not like the cartoon, so you are wrong

      • Except that he is. He wears a white robe and has white hair. What does that remind you of?

      • Again, phenomenological language. Symbols and metaphors of His wisdom, holiness, purity.

      • Again, you are just lying to escape the uncomfortable implications.

      • Finding a reasonable explanation is not lying. You don’t know how to follow your own religion – Surah 29:46

      • You don’t know the meaning of the word “reasonable”. You think any stupid answer you give is worthy of acceptance by those who are not as gullible as you.

      • You don’t know the meaning of “reasonable”.

      • Sure, sure Pennywise.

      • There is nothing uncomfortable when you are not lazy and study the issues.

      • Blindly copying like-minded people is not how one studies. But that’s what you do.

      • Those are my articles that I wrote several years ago. It saves time and copying & pasting is a good thing to save time.

        Stick it in your Qaliyoon and smoke it.

      • 🤣 So what you’re saying is that you have been a copy/paster for a long time. Youve been immersed in ignorance. No wonder you’re so ignorant and irrational! 😂

      • nothing wrong with it whatsoever, since you need to read more better materials. Go and read and educate yourself.

      • Lol! I am educated enough to see through your pathetic lies. Your bias has been exposed many, many times already.

      • But we have salvation from sin and the fire.
        I John 2:25

      • Doesn’t refute what Stew said. Besides, you’re still in your sins because your savior was also sinful.

  17. @stewpot

    “So how does God not do His will but only Hi will as per the verse?”

    You seem to have trouble expressing yourself rationally. It is one of the side effects of a false pagan religon.

    • @ Erasmus
      I agree that’s why you have yet to explain anything and your book has Jesus who is supposed to be God sounding like a crazy person. So again since you have so much commentary please explain:

      …for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me… (John 5:30)

      …I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'” (John 20:17)

      …I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. (Revelation 3:2)

      …The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God… (Revelation 3:12)

      Do you see what happens when you worship 3 gods (i.e ACTUAL paganism)? The falsehood of claiming to be monotheistic is easily exposed. If you disagree then explain how “God” has a god.

    • Lol, I love when Iggy makes ironic comments, completely oblivious to how it exposes him! 😂

  18. @ Ken

    Yes we believe in Judgment Day, Heaven and Hell, etc (this actually in our articles of faith) I did not say being a judge is vengeful and petty or being prone to error I say verses such as this are:

    6And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart. 7So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” (Genesis 6:6-7)

    Basically: Waaa!!! You guys don’t ever listen. Waaaa! I’m going to just destroy you even though I’m supposed to be omnipotent and know you would be like this when I created you. Waaaa!!!

    “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

    Same thing: Waaa!!! Saul, why did I appoint you King? Waaa! You don’t listen. Waaaa!!!

    Or killing innocent parties like David’s(as) (and I seek refuge from God) alleged bastard child and letting him go free with murder? (2 Samuel 12)

    So He forgave David(as) who should have been stoned to death a per HIS law and killed an innocent party instead as punishment.

    There’s a variety of blasphemous stories such as this but the point has been made. God is above many of the attributes that the Bible displays Him as having it describes God in a simialar vein as the cartoon to us. For example compare God “regretting making humans” to:

    O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance from Me and I shall guide you… O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness from Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good, praise God, and let him who finds other than that, blame no one but himself.


    God is saying basically even if you were all the most good of the good or the evilest of the evil this does not benefit or harm Me in any way. You worship for your own sake as this is what you were created to do and is your purpose. Finally and this is important you have a guarantee of NOTHING and it’s arrogant to say that. You don’t know what you will die on. Notice God said, “all of you are astray except for those I have guided”. God could cause an event to happen tomorrow that alters your heart and you become an atheist, die on disbelief and enter Hell. People who talk like this are the ones who are most misguided, God says describing believers:

    70:27. Who fear their Lord’s warning,
    70:28. because the torment of their Lord is not a thing to feel safe from.

    And in another place describing disbelievers in destroyed nations:

    7:97. Did the people of those cities feel safe that My punishment would never come to them in the middle of the night while they were sleeping?
    7:98. Did the people of those cities feel safe that My punishment would never come to them in the middle of a sunny day while they were playing?
    7:99. Did they feel safe against God’s plan? Because it’s only the losers feel safe against God’s plan.

    • Again, the descriptions or “The Lord regretted” or “was sorry” or “was grieved” or “the Lord changed His mind” are phenomenological language.

      “O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself . . .

      Thank you for this. This is bad. The True God (the God of the Bible) does not have to command Himself to not do oppression or injustice. He cannot sin or lie or do oppression by nature. God cannot do anything against His nature.

      So, you have a very low “god”; and very weak and crazy character.

      Thank you for supplying that text. It is obvious which God is the true God – the God of the Bible, the Holy Trinity.

      The Allah of Islam is:

      “The very best of deceivers” خیر المکارین
      The proud one -المتکبر
      The one who forces, the enforcer – الجبار

      Yes, I know Al-Jabbar is cognate with “Ha-Gibbor” הגבר, but the character of the true God in the Bible has the balance of Almighty power and compassionate love and kindness and mercy. There is just not much mercy or love in Allah, even though your book claims it; not much evidence for it, given the Qur’an, Hadith, and history of Islam.

      • @ Ken

        Well, you refuted your own point I didn’t even know that so thanks for the info lol.

        Anyways your lack of love comment is purely conjecture and since you have offered no proof or basis for the claim I don’t really need to refute it. So let’s keep it simple with a you’re wrong?

        Moving on, you and I both know your last comment was a reach but I’ll just touch on the subject. God is able to do all things if He wished to be a tyrant He could do that and none could stop Him. He simply chooses not to because as you said: “it is not a godly attribute”. This would fall under the same category as He would not be a fool or become a human, in the same way, He is only Just which is what is being emphasized in the statement “I have forbidden oppression for Myself”. He is stating He will never do this thing and since He has forbidden it for Himself YOU humans have less right to do it.

        On the other hand, what is described in the Bible about God is very unjust and oppressive (case in point the baby being killed instead of the guilty party, Jesus supposedly being killed for the sins of others and we can add in pretty much ALL of what Joshua is described as doing to the Cannitites. Low and crazy character is these pagan authors alleged “phenomenological language” about God which basically makes Him act like a grumpy old man, not an omnipotent being. This anthropomorphism in no way, shape or form imparts “easy to understand language” (it actually does the opposite and makes Him like the Creation).

      • You have to read the entire article about the lack of love in Islam. Here is another one.

      • You refuted your own point. The Allah of Islam has to command Himself to not do injustice. The God of the Bible never sins or lies or does injustice because He cannot do anything against His nature. “God is not able to lie” – Titus 1:2
        “God is light and in Him is no darkness” 1 John 1:5
        God’s eyes are too pure to look upon evil with approval – Habakkuk 1:13


      • You have been refuted about this very point, yet you still vomit your lies?

    • Kenny gets nuked again!

      • @ Ken

        1. That is what is happening according to the text He’s portrayed as throwing a temper tantrum because humans aren’t acting like what He wants them to do.

        2. Completely balanced we don’t need to worship another idol alongside god for Him to balance these things. He was doing it long before Jesus(as) arrived on the scene so it is actually YOUR religion that i too late. Unless you would like to go back down that rabbit hole that is Christianity’s, Achilles Heel?

        3. 10:94 has nothing to do with us Muslims asking Christians questions (which doesn’t even make sense). I refuted this in my article, God is mocking the pagan Arabs who were trying to get questions about what to ask Muhammad(saw) from the Jewish tribes. I know that despite the evidence you’re going to continue on in your fan fiction but just so other people know:


      • “Islam is a man made religion, 600 years too late. Not mu…”
        Buahahahhaaha! This guy!

  19. @ Ken

    Then God is not watching the world according to the author of Habakkuk’s foolish statement. Both good and evil happen by God’s permission. He allows evil for the good that will ultimately be brought. Both these things He is the ultimate source of. He has stated clearly He does not oppress so your entire point is quite frankly silly.

    Finally, let me just do a refutation and show you where God lied in the Bible:

    Adam’s(as) command:
    …16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

    Satan (really the actual animal, the snake) says:

    1Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat of any tree in the garden?’”

    2The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’”

    4“You will NOT surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

    7And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; so they sewed together fig leaves and made coverings for themselves.

    So God says they will die the same day they eat it, Satan (really an actual snake) says no you won’t you will just have the understanding of right and wrong. So God lied and Satan (really a snake) told the truth. Now in the Quran, the opposite happens:

    2:34. When I told the angels: “Bow down to Adam”. Everyone bowed except Lucifer who adamantly refused. He sought greatness and was from the ungrateful disbelievers.
    2:35. I then said: “Adam, you and your wife stay here in the Garden for a little while, and eat from it carefree. But do not go near this tree, or you will misplace yourself and be among those who do wrong…”

    20:117. Then I said: “Adam, this is an enemy to both you and your wife. Do not let him get you taken out of the garden, so that you are landed in exhaustion and misery.”


    20:120. But Satan whispered to him, saying: “Adam, would you like me to show you the Tree of Everlasting Life and a kingdom that will never decay?”

    7:20. But Satan would whisper to them and then go away, in order to try and expose to them to their covered private parts, saying: “Your Lord only forbid this tree from you to stop you from becoming kings or living here forever…”
    7:21. And he would vow to them: “I’m really just here to be one of your helpful mentors…”
    7:22. He slowly but surely, finally lured them into doing what he wanted. When they both tasted of the tree, what should be kept covered of their privates were exposed to each other and they both instinctively began trying to cover themselves by sticking leaves on their bodies from the Garden. Their Lord then called out to them ˹saying˺: “Didn’t I forbid you both from that tree and tell you that Satan is your sworn enemy?”

    So in the Quranic version, God told the Truth about what would happen and Satan said any lie he could to get them to slip. Just one of the many ways the Quran corrects the corruption. So, on the contrary, you claim God is omnipotent and truthful when according to the Biblical text He is not.

    • The serpent was more truthful than the god of the Bible.

      • They died immediately, spiritually in their relationship with God. The process of death and corruption started. They were cast out of the garden, which represents their separation from a relationship with God. Separation from God is death.

        We are dead in our sins.
        Ephesians 2:1-3
        Romans 8:18-25

      • That’s not what the text said. You are again adding your own twist to avoid the contradiction.

        Just like how Christians try to avoid the embarrassing myth that a talking serpent led to man’s downfall. They claim it was act the devil in disguise. But the text clearly says it was an actual animal.

      • Except other verses tell us that it was Satan in the form of a serpent or dragon.
        Revelation 12:9
        Revelation 20:2
        2 Corinthians 11:3

        It is all “God-breathed” – 2 Timothy 3:15-17

      • Once again, Pennywise jumps. The Jews didn’t know anything about Revelations and Corinthians. Those came several hundred years too late! 😂

      • The author of Revelation and the apostle Paul (Saul of Tarsus) are Jews!!

      • Lol!! They came centuries afterwards!

      • Satan is not mentioned much in the OT; but Job and Zechariah does mention him, and Ezekiel 28.

      • Exactly, so you are still left with the problem that Genesis says nothing about Satan, only a talking animal.

      • Means you have to accept ALL the OT.

      • The OT doesn’t say anything about Satan causing mankind’s fall, idiot. 🤣

      • And the Revelation motif is borrowed from the myth of Apollo’s birth.

      • The Genesis text does tell us that the death is a spiritual death – meaning separation from God. Genesis 3:23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden,

        Earlier in the chapter, God describes all the curses (judgements on mankind as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve.
        Romans 8:18-25 explains this also.

        similar to the “go down as enemies of one another” in the Qur’an.
        The Qur’an even affirms that mankind will become sinful, enemies, have hatred, fighting, killing, wars, divorces, anger, etc. as a result of Adam and Eve’s sin.

        QB, Faiz – like your heart that is full of sinful anger and spite.

        original sin that you got from your parents, who going all the way back got it from Adam and Eve.

        So, the Qur’an in a way confirms the doctrine of original sin, even though you try to deny it.

      • 😂 Again, the text in the chapter does not say anything about a spiritual death. It just said “you will die”. The serpent told the truth. Your god didn’t.

      • You have a reading comprehension problem, since them being sent out is a separation from God and God placed Cherubim with a flaming sword to keep humans from their own efforts to get back to God. God had to give grace and come to establish relationship again. Through Christ and grace.

      • And you are a stubborn liar. Again, the text if Genesis does not say anything about a spiritual death. Get over it, dummy.

      • @ QB
        Basically. But wait it gets even better to let’s look at what Christian Scholars say:

        in the day that … die] Literally, in the day that Adam ate of the fruit, he did not die. This is one of the minor inconsistencies in the story which are not explained for us. Either we are to assume that, in some fuller version of it, the Lord God was described as “repenting” of the sentence of immediate death, as changing His mind and sparing man in His mercy: or the words “in the day, &c.” are to be regarded as metaphorical, and the doom, “thou shalt surely die,” merely means “thou shalt become mortal.”

        We must not infer from this verse that the Lord God was considered, to have made man other than mortal. It is clear from Genesis 3:22, that man was created a mortal being. Perhaps, in one version of the story, he was intended to eat of the tree of life “and live for ever.”


        (So basically a contradiction, corruption or just plain ol’ lie. Let’s now end that “it was a spiritual death excuse)

        Gaebelein’s Annotated Bible
        “Thou shalt surely die” means literally “dying thou shalt die.” This does not mean “eternal death,” but “physical death.”


        (By the way, them trying to save it with the “implication” of multiple deaths is laughably wrong. This exists in Arabic to emphasize this thing is major. Like for example, “I hit him with a hit” means I punched the crap out of him not there were multiple strikes or in Surah Zazalha “When the Earth is shaken with a shake” means this will be the largest earthquake the world has seen.)

        The question arises: What is meant by the threatening: “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Knobel holds the sense to be, that he should die immediately; because the infinitive absolute before the finite verb, he says, expresses the undoubted, the certain, the actual. But notwithstanding this, Adam must have lived quite a long time after the fall. In vain is it attempted to set aside this difficulty either by the rendering to become mortal (Targum, Symmachus, Hieronymus, and others), or by making it that introduction of pain and sorrow into life which goes before death in our conception of it (Calvin, Gerhard, and others). Still less, indeed, can we think of a death-penalty to be positively inflicted (Batav., Tuch, Ewald, and others).

      • Devastating! At least some Christians are honest about the errors in their Bible, even if Kenny isn’t.

    • Then God is not watching the world according to the author of Habakkuk’s foolish statement. Both good and evil happen by God’s permission. He allows evil for the good that will ultimately be brought.

      Agreed. But the key phrase is “with approval” – which is the meaning of the passage.

      The meaning of the verse is:
      God’s eyes are too pure to look upon evil with approval – Habakkuk 1:13

      But yes, He is sovereign and allows evil to happen, even ordaining / deciding a head of time to allow it for His own good and holy purposes.

  20. most of those modern scholars you quote are not credible and liberal.
    (the Cambridge commentary is not credible because it is liberal garbage.

    The Geneva Study Bible comment is right:

    “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely {m} die.
    (m) By death he means the separation of man from God, who is our life and chief happiness: and also that our disobedience is the cause of it.”

    Genesis 3:23 confirms this is correct.

    It is in the text and context of Genesis 3.

    So your arguments is nuked.

    • Pennywise’s bias and double standards are exposed yet again. Remember when this clown tried to use the Study Quran commentaries, even though no traditional Islamic scholars had the same views as the liberals of the Study Quran?

      Regardless, the text of Genesis is clear. You don’t need commentaries. A talking serpent told the truth.. Kenny’s god did not.

      • @ QB

        They took every person and deviant sects opinion and the liberals of the Study Quran still agreed with me so its still not quite the same lol.

  21. @ Ken
    Why do you feel the need to half quote a verse its:

    Get down as enemies of one another and if guidance comes to you as it no doubt will, whoever follows it will know no fear or sorrow.

    This verse is one of hope not punishment. We are enemies of one another without God’s guidance of the Scripture and sending prophets

    Moving on I addressed this, the “spiritual death” excuse is laughably poor. This type of speech exists in Arabic please watch this clip:

    In Arabic one would say this man was “struck with a strike” to emphasis he was hit really, really, really hard. They are trying to argue basically that the man was hit multiple times. Basically what the verse says is:

    “Adam(as) if you eat from this tree you will die a great death this day”

    That is why all the commentaries I quoted said this was literally a physical death as that is the natural reading. One could even say it implies a violent, tortuous one. Point is the Bible claims God lied and Satan spoke the truth the spirtual death is an after the fact excuse to get around it with Genesis 3:23 not assisting the issue in any way, shape or form


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  2. How Christ’s Incarnation Differs from the Hindu Idea of Avatar | Apologetics and Agape

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