One would expect, as an antecedent probability, that if God wished to send down to mankind a Revelation, that He would announce this amazing fact clearly. This the Quran does in many places. The first instance is at the beginning of the second chapter, reproduced below from the Yusuf Ali translation.
Categories: Qur'an
To be fair that passage doesn’t exactly say ‘this is the word of God’ only that is a guidance for those who believe in him, pray, believe in the hereafter, and spend out of what has been given to them.
There are several books of the Bible, such as the Prophets and the Torah, which do claim to be the word of God directly without dilution whereas other parts do contain Gods words to various people while being interspersed with human commentary and descriptions as you know the Bible is not claimed to be Gods word but rather his inspired word. Those human beings who wrote the books of scripture but it was God who guided in them in their writing. Besides I’m not too sure if its purpose need be revealed clearly for its content not to do the same gradually?
To be fair, there are numerous verses in the Qur’an where it has God saying explicitly and emphatically and clearly that it (The Qur’an) is a revelation from God Almighty.
Should I provide just some of the many, many such verses?
@ patrobin
Follower is correct there are many ayat where Allah says the Quran is a revelation.
The Torah and Injeel were not revealed gradually they were all at once. Allah says uses “anzala” when referring to the Torah and Injeel while He uses “tanzil” or “nazala” a lot when referring to the Quran. I didn’t confirm this but Nouman Ali Khan says the difference between the wors is “anzala” means they were sent down at once and “nazala” and “tanzil” means the Quran was gradual but Allah hu Alim.
I was referring to the passage quoted not that there aren’t other places in the Qur’an doesn’t mention it in other places nor that a detailed understanding of the language of the Qur’an wouldn’t lead to the conclusion that it claims to come from God.
My point is that this kind of statement is simplistic and fails to understand what the Bible claims to be nor justifies the value of one claim being more important than the other
the Bible doesn’t claim to be a revelation from God.
How is that statement simplistic or wrong?
as you know the Bible isn’t one book but a collection of books that possess a variety of genre and amongst those texts there are certainly books that claim to contain the words of God himself, revealed the Prophets such as Moses in the Torah and whole books written with nothing but the speech of God such as is contained within the writings of Prophets. The Gospels contain the words of God in so far as they contain the words of Christ and those he gave authority to continue his message (the Apostles).
Comparing the Bible and Qur’an in this regard is simply discussing apples and oranges
Yes I know all that. But you misunderstand my point. Christian treat the canon of scripture as a single Book which they call the “Word of God”. My point is that christians seem unaware that this Book does not claim to be inspired by God.
knowing that the Bible isn’t one book would solve this problem but you haven’t responded to my point about the Prophets and Torah claiming to contain Gods speech
the christians treat it as one Book – hence my point
So are discussing the Bible or some Christians understanding of the Bible? But the main question is: Are there books of scripture that claim to content the speech of God?
even you call it ‘the Bible’!
Shocking! That’s like calling a single volume of Shakespeare’s plays a book but we all know its a collection of books. But what about my question; are there books of the Bible that claim to contain Gods speech?
If so then the title of this post is sadly mistaken 🙁
@ Patrobin
I “get it” the belief is just weak. You can’t say people were “inspired” to write and not know their names.
Also, I agree there was better ayat to quote but even this ayat implies the Quran is revelation.
why not? Can’t the content be enough
Uhhh… no. You’re making the claim something is from God. Here I found this book in a garbage dump in Egypt idk who wrote it, or if he was a liar or a deviant or had a bad memory but here base your life around it and your Hereafter on what it says.
whether or not you base your life around it would depend on what the book says. Besides which the point of my comments wasn’t about judging is a book claiming to be from God is actually from God but that it does claim to be from God of which there are books of the Bible that do. Am I right or wrong?
@Patrobin,
I wish you the best in life and I wish you the best in your search and struggle for the truth.
I am a Muslim but I don’t like to judge Christians who were born as Christians in comparison to Muslims born as Muslims.
Most people like to rationalize and follow what has become comfortable to them in their impressionable age as children and youth.
May God guide us all to follow the truth wherever it leads.
Please check out the Qur’an with an open heart and an open mind.
Peace
@ patrobin
The Bible itself is not a revelation. It is a Frankenstein book that contains bits of revelation. I’m just going to copy from my article (there’s chart halfway down)
The next point of confusion is about the book called “The Bible”. This book is not being referred to in these verses. The Bible is a collection of stories containing pieces of numbers 1-6 as well as lies and then being claimed as simply #1 by itself. When God in the Qur’an is talking about the Torah and Gospel, He is quoting from what He Himself revealed as a Scripture. Here is an example: During his ministry, Jesus wasn’t going around reading 1 Timothy to the people. This is part of writing something and claiming that it’s from God. God never revealed these books and one can’t say these are the Scripture.
The Torah and Gospel are the revelations that were actually dictated by God Himself. Although books in the Bible may contain some of what these Scriptures contained, they are not what is being referred to in the Quranic verses.
Here is an example using Islam (emphasis ours):
“Narrated Ibn `Abbas: The Prophet (ﷺ) was hiding himself in Mecca and used to recite the (Qur’an) in a loud voice. When the pagans heard him they would abuse the Qur’an and the one who brought it, so God said to His Prophet: ‘Neither say your prayer aloud, nor say it in a low tone’ (17.110).”[13]
The bolded part is Scripture in the story. This one verse that is just revealed is part of a whole chapter of the Qur’an that is 111 verses long. All 111 verses are revealed by God but in this incident, only this verse is revealed. Now imagine instead of that little part being the Qur’an, Muslims started saying the whole story is the Qur’an (i.e. the entire hadith above). That’s what the book known as the Bible is. The original revelation isn’t available now or during the time of the Prophet only a part of it is. For further understanding, let’s review the following charts. The green parts are what are being referred to in the Qur’an. What Jews and Christians are in possession of and use today are in brown. Finally the red X’s represent a transmission break (i.e we don’t know who wrote this or where they got it from):
These anonymous Frankenstein books used nowadays are not what Muslims believe in nor what God revealed to mankind.
However, just because we can no longer read these books doesn’t mean we can’t believe in them. It would be the same way we can’t see Angels but we believe in them. The Qur’an is the protector of the original (i.e. the green) Gospel and Torah along with whatever of it survives today in the Bible (i.e. the brown). Whenever Muslims quote from these texts, we are trying to show what parts may have been green or led up to the green. Hopefully, that clears up Islam’s position on the previous Scriptures.
https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2019/02/24/corruption-of-the-scriptures-part-i-does-islam-confirm-the-bible-as-a-scripture-from-god/