Lol on page 11 he says “I refer to Dan Gibson, a Canadian amateur Near East archaeologist with no formal academic training but with Christian missionary connections who has convinced himself and wants to convince the rest of the world that Islam started in Petra rather than Mecca and Medina” .
Anyone with even half a brain can see for themselves that Dan Gibson is correct in his assertions that early Kiblas faced Petra and not Mecca/Medina. Just look at the archaeological findings for yourselves and you will see, too. I think academics should leave pride out of serious science and always strive to discover the truth, whether through their own works, or the works of others.
So we’re supposed to take the work of someone who is:
“… Canadian amateur Near East archaeologist with no formal academic training but with Christian missionary connections”
Over
David A. King the “Professor of the History of Science Johann Wolfgang Goethe University, Frankfurt am Main”
Who not only refuted his entire paper. But basic common sense refutes it as well. Watch this, just because a building faces a certain way doesn’t mean that’s the way we think the Qiblah (prayer direction) is that way. (Gasp!) For example in my city alone, buildings specifically built to be mosques go every which way we just do this thing called “orient ourselves” in whatever direction while in the building like when we’re “in our houses” (Gasp!) This is why no academia takes this crap serious and it made for people who don’t know any better.
You know what the really stupid thing about Gibson’s idiotic theory is? He thinks there was a grand conspiracy by the Abbasids to change the qiblah to Mecca after an earthquake destroyed the one in Petra. I’ll just leave it at that. 🤦♂️
I’m nothing if I can’t paint a picture for the audience. Anyways, he goes all the way to the Abbassids?!?!??!?! Uhhhh:
1. They were super rich and wouldn’t care if they had to rebuild Petra. Would have probably used it as a big political move. Way less work then convincing ALL Muslims on planet Earth to just accept a new Qiblah direction.
2. How does he explain little numbers like this from the Quran (emphasis mine):
2:149. No matter where you might be, turn your face in the direction of MASJID AL HARAM. That is the Truth from your Lord and God is never oblivious of anything you do.
2:150. Wherever you go out to, turn your face toward MASJID AL HARAM. And wherever you may be, turn your faces toward it, so that the people will have no argument against you
Can we fnd this location in this first hand document? Why yes we can:
48:24. He is the One who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them in the belly of MECCA even after He had given you the claws to snatch them up, and God has full view of what you do.
48:25. They are the ones who disbelieved, blocked you from MASJID AL HARAM and prevented the offerings from reaching their place of sacrifice…
You know what’s interesting and further proof of Dan Gibson’s retardation? I was reading my juz today and two more reasons this claim doesn’t work:
1. The Quran a first-hand document for 6th century Arabia explicitly names Mecca and the Kaaba where its at:
“Believers, do not kill game while you are in the state of being a pilgrim! Whoever of you kills it on purpose, then the compensation is to be a sacrificial animal just like the one that is dedicated as an offering that must reach the Kaaba…” (5:95)
“Allah has made the Kaaba, a symbol for all people; along with the sacred months, the offerings and the animals marked for sacrifice, so that you can know that Allah is fully aware of all that’s in the heavens and earth. And so that you can understand that He has perfect knowledge of all existence.” (5:97)
Now cross-reference the two verses that speak on the Kaaba, sacrifices and being a pilgrim referring to the beginning of the chapter as the whole thing is about after the conquest of Mecca and rules for Hajj):
“Believers, do not desecrate Allah’s symbols, the Forbidden Months, the marked offerings or the people coming in peace to the Sacred House. They are in pursuit of favor from their Lord as well as for Him to be pleased. When you leave the state of being a pilgrim, you may hunt again. Don’t let your hatred for the people who stopped you from the Masjid Al Haram lead you to cross the set limits. Help each other in righteousness and piety and do not help each other in sin and crime. Be mindful of Allah and remember that His retribution is severe.” (5:2)
Pause. So now we can see every reference to Masjid Al Haram and the Sacred House in the Quran is referring to the Kaaba (which is only located in Mecca):
“This is Allah’s way which has happened before, and you will never find a change in Allah’s way. He is the One who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them in the belly of Mecca even after He had given you the claws to snatch them up, and Allah has a full view of what you do. They are the ones who disbelieved, blocked you from Masjid al-Haram, and prevented the offerings from reaching their place of sacrifice.” (48:23-25)
So yeah this is basically me nuking Gibson. However, as these people are arrogant and will double down reason two:
2. Documents of the time such as “The History of The Patriarchs of Alexandria” confirm where the Kaaba and Mecca is:
“And in those days Heraclius saw a dream in which it was said to him: “Verily there shall come against you a circumcised nation, and they shall vanquish you and take possession of the land.” So Heraclius thought that they would be the Jews, and accordingly gave orders that all the Jews and Samaritans should be baptized in all the provinces which were under his dominion. But after a few days there appeared a man of the Arabs, from the southern districts, that is to say, from MECCA OR ITS NEIGHBORHOOD, whose name was Muhammad; and he brought back the worshippers of idols to the knowledge of the One God, and bade them declare that Muhammad was his apostle; and his nation were circumcised in the Hesh, not by the law, and PRAYED TOWARDS THE SOUTH, TURNING TOWARDS A PALCE WHICH THEY CALLED THE KAABAH. And he took possession of Damascus and Syria, and crossed the Jordan, and dammed it up. And the Lord abandoned the army of the Romans before him, as a punishment for their corrupt faith, and because of the anathemas uttered against them, on account of the council of Chalcedon, by the ancient fathers.”
So not only do they tell us where Mecca is they also say Muslims conquered Jordan and thus we couldn’t have started there. So with that said this is for the “… Canadian amateur Near East archaeologist with no formal academic training but with Christian missionary connections”
Let’s refute his evidence of early real estate and the alignment of the Mosque by year, before the Niche locator is used, rather than attack his amateur standing. This is ad hominem at best. 😉
Lol on page 11 he says “I refer to Dan Gibson, a Canadian amateur Near East archaeologist with no formal academic training but with Christian missionary connections who has convinced himself and wants to convince the rest of the world that Islam started in Petra rather than Mecca and Medina” .
Anyone with even half a brain can see for themselves that Dan Gibson is correct in his assertions that early Kiblas faced Petra and not Mecca/Medina. Just look at the archaeological findings for yourselves and you will see, too. I think academics should leave pride out of serious science and always strive to discover the truth, whether through their own works, or the works of others.
Yeah, who needs peer-reviewed scholarship when Harvey Leister, some random guy on the internet, has it all figured out?
I don’t think Harvey understands the technical jargon of scholars like David King. That usually happens with morons with “half a brain”.
@ Harry
So we’re supposed to take the work of someone who is:
“… Canadian amateur Near East archaeologist with no formal academic training but with Christian missionary connections”
Over
David A. King the “Professor of the History of Science Johann Wolfgang Goethe University, Frankfurt am Main”
Who not only refuted his entire paper. But basic common sense refutes it as well. Watch this, just because a building faces a certain way doesn’t mean that’s the way we think the Qiblah (prayer direction) is that way. (Gasp!) For example in my city alone, buildings specifically built to be mosques go every which way we just do this thing called “orient ourselves” in whatever direction while in the building like when we’re “in our houses” (Gasp!) This is why no academia takes this crap serious and it made for people who don’t know any better.
🤣🤣 The gasps got me.
You know what the really stupid thing about Gibson’s idiotic theory is? He thinks there was a grand conspiracy by the Abbasids to change the qiblah to Mecca after an earthquake destroyed the one in Petra. I’ll just leave it at that. 🤦♂️
@ QB
I’m nothing if I can’t paint a picture for the audience. Anyways, he goes all the way to the Abbassids?!?!??!?! Uhhhh:
1. They were super rich and wouldn’t care if they had to rebuild Petra. Would have probably used it as a big political move. Way less work then convincing ALL Muslims on planet Earth to just accept a new Qiblah direction.
2. How does he explain little numbers like this from the Quran (emphasis mine):
2:149. No matter where you might be, turn your face in the direction of MASJID AL HARAM. That is the Truth from your Lord and God is never oblivious of anything you do.
2:150. Wherever you go out to, turn your face toward MASJID AL HARAM. And wherever you may be, turn your faces toward it, so that the people will have no argument against you
Can we fnd this location in this first hand document? Why yes we can:
48:24. He is the One who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them in the belly of MECCA even after He had given you the claws to snatch them up, and God has full view of what you do.
48:25. They are the ones who disbelieved, blocked you from MASJID AL HARAM and prevented the offerings from reaching their place of sacrifice…
(Cue that surprised Pickachu face)
3. Like I told Marc, Orientalist are stupid.
You know what’s interesting and further proof of Dan Gibson’s retardation? I was reading my juz today and two more reasons this claim doesn’t work:
1. The Quran a first-hand document for 6th century Arabia explicitly names Mecca and the Kaaba where its at:
“Believers, do not kill game while you are in the state of being a pilgrim! Whoever of you kills it on purpose, then the compensation is to be a sacrificial animal just like the one that is dedicated as an offering that must reach the Kaaba…” (5:95)
“Allah has made the Kaaba, a symbol for all people; along with the sacred months, the offerings and the animals marked for sacrifice, so that you can know that Allah is fully aware of all that’s in the heavens and earth. And so that you can understand that He has perfect knowledge of all existence.” (5:97)
Now cross-reference the two verses that speak on the Kaaba, sacrifices and being a pilgrim referring to the beginning of the chapter as the whole thing is about after the conquest of Mecca and rules for Hajj):
“Believers, do not desecrate Allah’s symbols, the Forbidden Months, the marked offerings or the people coming in peace to the Sacred House. They are in pursuit of favor from their Lord as well as for Him to be pleased. When you leave the state of being a pilgrim, you may hunt again. Don’t let your hatred for the people who stopped you from the Masjid Al Haram lead you to cross the set limits. Help each other in righteousness and piety and do not help each other in sin and crime. Be mindful of Allah and remember that His retribution is severe.” (5:2)
Pause. So now we can see every reference to Masjid Al Haram and the Sacred House in the Quran is referring to the Kaaba (which is only located in Mecca):
“This is Allah’s way which has happened before, and you will never find a change in Allah’s way. He is the One who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them in the belly of Mecca even after He had given you the claws to snatch them up, and Allah has a full view of what you do. They are the ones who disbelieved, blocked you from Masjid al-Haram, and prevented the offerings from reaching their place of sacrifice.” (48:23-25)
So yeah this is basically me nuking Gibson. However, as these people are arrogant and will double down reason two:
2. Documents of the time such as “The History of The Patriarchs of Alexandria” confirm where the Kaaba and Mecca is:
“And in those days Heraclius saw a dream in which it was said to him: “Verily there shall come against you a circumcised nation, and they shall vanquish you and take possession of the land.” So Heraclius thought that they would be the Jews, and accordingly gave orders that all the Jews and Samaritans should be baptized in all the provinces which were under his dominion. But after a few days there appeared a man of the Arabs, from the southern districts, that is to say, from MECCA OR ITS NEIGHBORHOOD, whose name was Muhammad; and he brought back the worshippers of idols to the knowledge of the One God, and bade them declare that Muhammad was his apostle; and his nation were circumcised in the Hesh, not by the law, and PRAYED TOWARDS THE SOUTH, TURNING TOWARDS A PALCE WHICH THEY CALLED THE KAABAH. And he took possession of Damascus and Syria, and crossed the Jordan, and dammed it up. And the Lord abandoned the army of the Romans before him, as a punishment for their corrupt faith, and because of the anathemas uttered against them, on account of the council of Chalcedon, by the ancient fathers.”
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/642Egypt-conq2.asp
So not only do they tell us where Mecca is they also say Muslims conquered Jordan and thus we couldn’t have started there. So with that said this is for the “… Canadian amateur Near East archaeologist with no formal academic training but with Christian missionary connections”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIPNf6HVefM
I mean this is so bad I might have to do an article lol.
Let’s refute his evidence of early real estate and the alignment of the Mosque by year, before the Niche locator is used, rather than attack his amateur standing. This is ad hominem at best. 😉